Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

Areyou has it right. The Tories are our best bet for a shift in policy. There are a lot of people - like most of the voting public - who, like me not so long ago, have no fucking idea what is going on yet.

Are you getting that made up as stencils?

Or a picture of a penis with a big red pen crossing it out?

Even if WEP reversed their stance, their coverage wasn't national either. I'm sure they weren't in my constituency.

What about if we all spoil our ballot papers on masse with the words: 'women don't have dicks' and a picture of a penis across all the names? (DH's idea)

Abusers use a system that is called DARVO. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. We have seen it consistently used by TRA for the past ten years. Just as transition advocates are trying to expel women from the Labour Party so have they ejected Gay and Lesbian leadership from the LGBT organizations for "transphobia", which translates to failure to submit to trans identified males authority.

It's everywhere. But it sounds as though Bennett was just being unpleasant rather than constructively opposing Self ID.

As for Neil Hamilton wanting UKIP protected as a minority. They're verging on extinction. Too late to save them (thank God).

Oh, I just found this while falling down a google hole...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42343250

UKIP want to take other rights away from women - so they're definitely not an option. Things like maternity leave would be at risk under UKIP - plus they've got no chance at all.

I hate to say it, but I think the Tories are the best bet for not passing self ID, I think they're pulling back from it now.

As it stands, I think plaid have my vote.

According to this, they want to prioritise a gender identity clinic in wales (there isn't one at the mo), so I'd assume they can't simultaneously want self id nothing would surprise me though

www2.partyof.wales/plaidlgbt

UKIP never field candidates here so at least that's one dilemma I won't face. But I'm prepared to give the Tories my vote if they're the ones who see sense and I can hardly believe I'm typing that.

What would be much better is if the WEP reverse their position on trans and spread their reach.

Yes, if I had a choice of parties I would vote based on the party. If my identity and rights and safety are about to be removed by all but one of the main parties, I'll vote for them. I don't think I'd vote UKIP though and I don't think they'd win.

But let's not forget this is a Tory policy too. I'm sure they're watching this shit fest with interest but there's no guarantee they won't have self-ID as a policy too.

Quite. It's a hopeless field ATM. But whoever comes out against Self-ID will get my vote next time, irrespective of anything else on the manifesto. It matters that much.

I just hope there is such a party.

And yes, I rely entirely on the benefits system. But even if labour refuse to back down on this and my non-labour vote leads to the tories winning again in 2020, I'm taking less of a risk to myself than any woman who goes up against her employer on the subject.

Nobody said they were voting Tory just that they couldn't vote labour while labour clearly don't care about them.

I'm sure you can understand not wanting to vote for someone who is going to screw you over. After all, you clearly don't vote Tory.

Labour thinking that their core voters will vote regardless is what allows them to think they can adopt whatever lobbyist policy takes their fancy.

Had a quick google. It is all a bit Jeremy Kyle.

Lucy is now divorced from Murad, who I think Lucy only met face to face on their wedding day and then a couple of times after.

Lucy says Murad did not know before the wedding that Lucy was born male. That might explain why he only saw Lucy a couple of times after they were married.

Oh, and Murad already had an existing wife and two children before marrying Lucy.

That aside, I think mosques will just quietly turn away people who try to present as the opposite sex, rather than get all ragey about it.

Religious groups are allowed to have single-sex services in line with their religious beliefs. They can turn away someone in order avoid offending the religious beliefs of a significant number of the people who follow the religion. So I'm guessing they'd just use that get-out.

Of course in the secular society, there will be no get-out at all.

Voting Tory leads to a maximum of four years of that. If Self-ID goes through the consequences are way beyond that.

Ereshkigal I'm sorry, I don't want to look up the conversation now, I unfollowed it because I was really losing the plot mentally with all the bullying and gaslighting. I'm sure google will help. I think it was "shit terfs say".

I'd imagine Muslims won't be bothered much by this unless it has an impact in their community. Just like the population at large.

Interesting, Popchyk. I know that Iran's promotion of transsexualism as a 'solution' to homosexuality was the result of a fatwa from the former Ayatollah, and that not all Muslim clerics agree with him.

In the US a trans-identified Muslim convert was accepted as a 'woman' at his mosque - until it emerged that he still had a dick. Then the shit hit the fan.

www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/transgender-woman-barred-from-tempe-mosque-unless-she-dresses-as-a-man-or-can-prove-shes-a-woman-7605136

It's hard to get a grasp on what actually went down, as the story only gives the TIM's version of events, but it seems that several women went to the mosque board and asked that he be barred from the women's section, and he was then asked to prove his anatomical status to the board. So he produced his 'gender' ID, and the mosque was like, 'No, we don't care about your "gender", we want to know if you have a dick.'

It was an interesting case of old skool patriarchy (people with vaginas must be kept away from people with penises, to ensure their purity) clashing with new skool patriarchy (people with penises should be able to go wherever they please, and people with vaginas are bigots if they complain).

Apparently the women who complained said that he made them 'uncomfortable', so I wonder if he was exhibiting creepy autogynephile behaviour. Also the mosque leader threatened to have a restraining order put on him, which makes me think he must have been really aggressive in his determination to keep accessing the women's section despite repeated requests not to. As with most trans news stories, you have to read between the lines, and of course I would dearly love to hear the women's side of this story.

I assume the disabled people posting who are happy for the Tories to fuck over the benefits system aren't actually relying on it. Or the now nonexistant mental health system. Or concerned about being homeless.

Why aren't the more muslims up in arms then? Are they afraid of a backlash?

I feel a bit sorry for her husband in that article - with her supposedly not telling him before they got married. You have got to wonder if there's a reason they've only seen each other twice since the wedding...

Being trans isn't a sin in a number of religions (because it hadn't been thought of at the time). Homosexuality is a sin in a number of religions.

Therefore in certain communities we see a big push to fit children who they see as gender non-conforming into the trans box rather than face even the merest hint that the child is just gender non-conforming and that's fine or that the child might even be gay and therefore sinful.

Huff link

Looks like the local mosque in this case would not allow this MTF transgender Muslim to pray with women. And this person had had surgery years before. Whether that was just this local mosque's policy or whether it is a nationwide Muslim Council of Britain policy, I don't know.

I must say I'd be hugely surprised if mosques in this country were in favour of self-identification of sex.

They buy lock stock and barrel into the trans women are women idea therefore they can ignore any conflict that would arise otherwise.

There is no way Muslims will be OK with TIMs with penises in women's private spaces. If they are unbothered by the trans agenda now, it is because they, like most people, assume that trans means someone who has had surgery. I agree that the most likely outcome of self-ID is that Muslim women will be further restricted in public life.

Iran has the highest number of 'transwomen' in the world. Because gay men there have the choice of surgery, or being thrown off a high building.

and their women's football team is mostly transwomen. They keep winning too.
.

I have no idea how muslim groups feel about this issue but I suppose it could go two ways.

They buy lock stock and barrel into the trans women are women idea therefore they can ignore any conflict that would arise otherwise. Or they will just further limit female muslims ability to partake in life outside the home. I suspect it will be the latter.