Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

There is no such thing as LGBT and has not been since the T began advocating the transitioning away the L and the G. The T is antithetical to Lesbians, Gays, and women's rights.

Suffragette being shown again on Channel 4 this Saturday evening I think. Hopefully it'll be a timely reminder of the struggles and sacrifices and why we won't stand by and watch our rights being taken back.

Oh that's an interesting one Ova.

Do remember though, Lily and Self ID for AWS is just Labour internal party politics. Take this argument out of the Westminster bubble and it sounds crazy. Talk to people, tell them what's going on.

^^ YY This. It sounds crazy because it IS crazy and the whole self Identification agenda is so obviously, depressingly against the interests and of women and girls. In the real world that much is crystal clear.
I peaked some family members recently - Labour Party members but not alert to these issues and not on social media. They were horrified at Labour’s AWS being made meaningless. And outraged at the requirements on every person applying to AWS to first declare how they ‘identify’.
Saw immediately that this obligation would exclude all the women who wouldn’t fill it out on principle because they thought it was objectionable.

Yes - exactly that Battleax. A staging post on an upward slope. But it's not.

Thanks for sharing your reading list.

This is another good read with some parallels to today

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_delusion

watched Suffragette again the other day - I saw it when it came out, but this time I saw it with new eyes

I think we're conditioned to think of the fight for suffrage as a staging post along a long upward slope.

But actually progress isn't uniform like that and societies do go mad in big and not so big ways and when that happens there is always resateamve of some sort.

A Nation of Enemies: Chile under Pinochet by Constable and Valenzuela

Resistance: Memoirs of Occupied France by Humbert

Fear and Progress: Ordinary lives in Franco's Spain by Cazorla Sanchez.

Stalinist Perpetrators on Trial: Scenes from the Great Terror in Soviet Ukraine by Viola

The Hunger Winter: Occupied Holland 1944-1945: Occupied Holland, 1944-45 Van der Zee.

^Former People* by Smith.

I watched Suffragette again the other day - I saw it when it came out, but this time I saw it with new eyes.

This time I saw it as not just a historical telling of women fighting for their rights 100 years ago - this time I recognised the violence that women face and are threatened with when they argue for their rights against men.

Yes of course. I'll just collate them.

Yes please share.

I totally get it, I see it too. Do remember though, Lily and Self ID for AWS is just Labour internal party politics. Take this argument out of the Westminster bubble and it sounds crazy. Talk to people, tell them what's going on.

I just have this awful feeling that we are sleepwalking into our rights being erased.

We'll find ourselves in a situation where we literally can't complain about sex discrimination, or stop, eg. a man doing our smear test, a sexual predator following women into the loos, boys going to all girls schools, women's colleges etc etc.

I mean, it's happening already - and the law hasn't even been passed.

Battleax, would you share the titles on here? Only if comfortable doing so. But I've been thinking the exact same thing.

This might sound superficially hyperbolic (I hope it isn't) but I've pulled some books down and ordered a couple more and have started reading about (broadly) periods of worse ideological madness than this and the people who survived them and how.

However bad and regressive this gets, societies have gone through worse and come out the other side. I'm hoping the long view will help my frustration.

I thought I was done with it.

I read LM Independent piece (ghost written I presume). How the fuck is LM not been suspended?

I read a Facebook thread of everyone saying ‘doesn’t affect me, live and let live’. Throwing the word ‘TERF’ around like it’s an acceptable part of language now.

All the shit being told to kids in school.

Fucks sake.

fox it gets to you doesn't it?

I’m sorry. I know this thread has moved on. I’m just so fucking over this shit.

Fucking hell. I’m at peaktrans.

It’s just astounding that so many people are missing the fucking point. It’s not fucking anti-trans, it’s pro-Women’s rights. It’s absolutely making my piss boil.

AWS - trans women are welcome. Those who are trans women. Not any fucking chancer in a dress who wants to show women who is boss.

If I can’t challenge a bloke with a penis in the pool changing room next to my 10yo, she will stop swimming.

I’M NOT A FUCKING TERF I’M A PMEF - a PREDATORY MALE EXCLUSIONARY FEMINIST.

Fucks sake

I was canvassed the other day. One guy was clearly v sympathetic but the rest of them said 'this isn't a local issue' and 'there aren't any TiMs standing for us' and I think probably thought I was a horrible transphobe.

I am v tribal in my allegiance to The Party. But I can't do this.

Certain I'm with you on that. And I will be asking about this, particularly how self-Id will play out in local schools, if I'm canvassed on the doorstep.

Well that's drawn a very clear line.

I am not sure what I'll do for the upcoming local elections. It's clearly not a local election issue but I can't vote for a party who want to erase me and teach misinformation in our schools.

I have never voted for anyone else for anything.

Oh gawd - Angela Rayner in the Indy.
www.independent.co.uk/voices/lgbt-history-month-labour-conservative-theresa-may-margaret-thatcher-section-28-discrimination-a8188901.html
Comments are open .

If anything, transgender is a more obviously wrong-headed argument than Dolezal.
Sex really is binary, and not a spectrum or sliding scale. Substantively everyone is unambiguously male and female.

Race is much more of a spectrum, we are all mixed race, and there is no obvious division. Mixed race siblings can be perceived as completely different from each other despite sharing parentage and background.

So, having said that, if we can fully grasp the offensiveness of a 'white' person approximating and appropriating 'blackness' for themself , we should really get men claiming to be women with perfect clarity.

People claiming they are offended by Dolezal but not by transgender are pure hypocrites.

The exact same arguments of how Dolezal was wrong..can be applied to 'transgender'. Exactly the same. But people refuse to acknowledge this and will attempt to bend language and confuse people and if that fails, they will scream bigot and run away.

More flowers for you miss money