Women who don’t be believed for their reasons not to BF - a feminist issue?

Not breastfeeding (particularly in public) is the norm. Especially past six months, and those of us who do it past twelve months get endless comments about when we plan to stop, 'don't you think they're a bit old for that', etc. Some people are judgmental no matter what women do, either way. That is the culture we live in. But referring to women who (might) talk about breastfeeding as tyrants and a mafia is a cruel passive aggressive trick intended to silence.

Have you actually read what people are describing? Why is it "grim" that women like you can't discuss breastfeeding with women who have already said they don't or can't? What exactly do you hope to get from that conversation?

You can discuss breastfeeding with all the other women who want to talk about it, which is, based on my experience, absolutely hoardes of you.

Women discussing breastfeeding and ways of making it easier are not invalidating women who don't breastfeed. If women around me had talked more about it I may not have struggled as much and become so ill. No one should expect women not to share experiences and discussion about breastfeeding because they themselves didn't do it, it's grim that women like me are made to feel like we should be silent about these issues in case it hurts someone else's feelings. Women who discuss breastfeeding are not tyrants or a mafia invalidating other women's experiences.

I had NO milk supply. I tried so hard but when I’m 24 hours post birth and my son is starting to shake because he isn’t getting enough milk I’m going to give him formula! What’s the other option- watch him starve slowly!? I tried to express too but for whatever reason I just didn’t have anything there.

I felt rubbish enough about it I didn’t need anyone telling or judging me. My midwife was lovely and said it didn’t matter he was gaining weight and thriving and was a healthy baby and that’s all that matters. I was very lucky that my midwife was massively supportive

Just because you haven't experienced it, @Rosenberg, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Again, women's experiences are wholly disbelieved. There absolutely fucking is a judgemental breastfeeding mafia out there. You just didn't encounter it because you breastfed.

People on other threads have described being in an anti-breastfeeding atmosphere or people making comments about it being disgusting, or inappropriate, or whatever. I've never encountered that but I would never suggest to someone that they were imagining it or making it up the way you just have. If there's no judgement about women who don't bf, why do you think so many of them feel the need to come up with what you consider weak excuses why they didn't? Think about it. If there was truly no judgement they'd feel able just say they didn't or chose not to and that would be it.

And it's fucking hard to "own" your choice when it wasn't really a choice, which in many cases it isn't, however pathetic you think those women are because they weren't as dedicated and saintly a mother as you.

Hackmum that happened to me in labour, no one would listen. I was in agony but gas and air was helping just about. This woman told me my labour wasnt progressing so they were going to put me on a ward and i wouldnt be able to have gas and air and couldnt have pain relief for a couple of hours. I burst into tears and she was telling me to calm down!!
I went to the toilet and ended up screaming down the corridor for my husband because i needed to push and i thought i was going to push him out down the loo! They managed to get me in a room and on a bed and i pushed him out! They really need to start listening, you know your own body!

I've had three children and have never met a "breastfeeding tyrant". I have though been told by other women, countless times, while I was breastfeeding, that they couldn't do it because it was too tiring or painful for them. I never sought this information, they just offered it up as I started to feed, like they felt they had to say something to imply that I was doing something that they had been deprived of. But I also have been through pnd, anaemia and exhaustion, mastitis, and abscesses that got so bad I was visiting my local hospital every couple of days to have pus drained from my breasts through huge syringes - I have scars from that. I breastfed throughout. It got easier as I learned how to do it. I don't judge anyone for not breastfeeding but it is infuriating to be told that someone 'couldnt' do it 'because it hurt' as if I didn't experience pain too, as if all women who breastfeed are just 'lucky' that it 'took'. Breastfeeding is hard work, especially at the beginning. It can hurt, a lot, excruciatingly so, when you haven't learned how to do it properly, and there is a lack of support to learn how. I had about five minutes of talk at me during an ante natal group about it in my first pregnancy - that was it. I had no help in the hospital after c section when I was struggling - they just gave me an electric pump with basic instructions and left me to it when the pain was bad. When I had mastitis and then abscesses I was given antibiotics and then the pus draining treatment, but no support was offered in learning to feed better. They just said it would get better or I could stop if I wanted to. No support at all was offered during my later pregnancies and birth, no ante natal group, no breastfeeding advice - after I'd done it all once it was assumed I didnt need further support, even though the first time round I ended up with all these issues plus pnd that totally wiped me out. I feel like continuing to feed has been a hard won achievement for me, that has been hugely rewarding with all of my children, but I also feel like I have to bite my lip and never mention any of it so I don't hurt the feelings of those women who say they 'just couldn't'. I really don't care if someone chose not to breastfeed, tbh. I think it's sad that some women believe they had no option to breastfeed because of bad advice or lack of support, and I think those services need to improve. But if you chose not to breastfeed, I don't care, I don't need to hear about it, and I really don't need to hear about how you suffered for a few days trying before you gave it up because you weren't 'lucky' like me. I wasn't lucky. I worked at it. I don't blame anyone for deciding not to - I found it hard and painful and exhausting and emotionally traumatic for months! I don't blame anyone for choosing not to go through that! However I did choose to continue and I don't regret it at all, in the end I loved doing it and I think it was a good choice for me and my kids. The idea that women at a baby group are being judgmental when they offer advice or offer to listen - it is just projection imo, from women who aren't sure of the choices they made and are looking for someone to deflect blame on to. If they needed more support, they should join breastfeeding women in advocating for that, otherwise they need to own their choices and stop casting around for a 'breastfeeding mafia' to cast blame on.

You're right, OP, women aren't believed. It's like all those women who tell the midwife they're in second labour, and the midwife turns them away saying, "don't be silly, you're nowhere near second stage" yet and then they go away and give birth 10 minutes later. (There was a good piece about this in the Guardian last week.) Or they say they're in a lot of pain, and the midwife says, You can't be, you're not far enough along.

The Skeptical OB writes a blog that can essentially be summed up as an attack on people who promote natural childbirth and breastfeeding. (It's a difficult read if you're hoping for a moderately expressed view!) She argues that the claim that the vast majority of women can breastfeed is completely untrue, and that a substantial minority simply don't produce enough milk.

To someone in a good place, confident about feeding and it's benefits I'm sure they think they're being helpful coming up woth different solutions. For a mother struggling all she sees is more areas that she's failing in.

I welcomed all suggestions when I was struggling to bf my first babies. I think bf works in cultures where women are surrounded by extended family who all offer suggestions and advice based on experience. The thing with bf is that you often need to try loads of different things to find something that works. I think we live in a society (Uk) where advice to new mothers is taken as an unwelcome insult. HCP rarely give good advice on bf, só it leaves mothers in a very vulnerable position.

jjpp123
Completely agree: mothers need time with trained midwives. Not a few quick words and then to be left alone, panicking.

I think people think they really are helping though. I don't think it's intended with malice. I don't think anything I've read on this thread is intended with malice either. To someone in a good place, confident about feeding and it's benefits I'm sure they think they're being helpful coming up woth different solutions. For a mother struggling all she sees is more areas that she's failing in.
What I needed when I was struggling was a midwife with me for every feed to help me latch, reassure me my son was eating and answer any questions. I needed this for several days until my milk came in and I felt confident. What I got was to be left alone for 2 days as the poor women were rushed off their feet. To be finally told he was starving and then discharged with formula. I'd been filled to the brim with pro breastfeeding propaganda and felt an absolute failure.
I'm sure there were dozens of things I could've tried but just a few days in my mental health was deteriorating rapidly and I felt so overwhelmed that I couldn't get my head around doing anything else.
If people want to encourage BFing then they need to be a physical help. They need to give their time to sit with women and help them not just make suggestions then waltz off.
People need to be more considerate of mental health issues associated with feeding problems. It seems a no brainer that mum being alive and well is far more important than breast milk over formula but sometimes they don't know when to stop.
In the OP's case her baby needed specialist milk. This obviously devastated her and she was so used to breast feeding. No helpful tips would've made her baby thrive on her milk but I get the impression her "choice" has still been questioned by numerous people trying to be helpful with no clue of the harm they were doing.
We are rubbish at supporting breastfeeding in this country and for now at least I think the "support" often does more harm than good.

Where I live, when DD was born there was loads of promotion and I think support, which stopped for the summer holidays because it was all reliant on volunteers.

In reality, where I live, there is a WEALTH of support, and no info on formula feeding.

Me too, and this is hardly allowing women an informed choice either.

Because they have their own agenda.
Some women truly believe that they have the right to override another woman's wishes, mental health and capabilities (I don't like to use that term but I mean, for when it isn't physically possible to BF), because they believe that 'breast is best' for the BABY and therefore they think they are advocates for these 'poor babies who are missing out'.
Another site is much worse for this. There are some real fucking menaces out there. They will sit in wait on formula forums and then quiz mothers all about their reasons why they are not breastfeeding. When a mother says 'because it wasn't possible', the response is a patronising, 'did you try everything? If you didn't, you've been failed, you didn't have enough support, there needs to be more support for women like you' ect. In reality, where I live, there is a WEALTH of support, and no info on formula feeding.

TwilightRiver this happens all the time. Nhs classic. Ridiculous 'top up' advice means baby doesn't feed at the breast enough and supply doesn't establish.

There is a massive difference between the two statements

• “many women would successfully breast feed if they tried differently”

And

• “You could have successfully breast fed if you had tried differently”

Actually, they both apply to me - I was given crap advice. But the first is a statement relevant to public health and how we set women up to fail. The second is just rude and unnecessary.

Plenty of people will judge me for saying this, but, i chose not to breast feed. I didnt like the thought of constantly having a baby stuck to my boob all day and not having any time to myself. I also cant function without a decent sleep so i liked the gaps between formula feeds. Call me selfish but thats what i needed to do to be a good mum.
No one has the right to judge you, tell them to piss off.
I dont think coming on the internet and starting threads about it is the best idea though - for you - as you will always get a few women who cant accept that not every woman wants to/ could breast feed. I honestly dont think its doing your mental health any good.
Your baby was fed and loved and that is the main thing! How old is your baby now?

bluedog i think your misinterpreting what bluedog is meaning.

I dont think blue means it as a personal attack on any individual but maybe if other advice was given , may have helped some women to continue to bf.

An example was i knew someone who really wanted to bf. Midwives told her her baby was starving and colostrum wasnt enough. They advised topping up with formula. Even when she did have baby latched on , a midwife said baby clearly wasnt getting enough and gave her a bottle. The baby hadnt been weighed from birth - how did they know 'it wasn't enough' .

Im not getting at topping up with formula, but ideally she should have been bf when baby latched on then topping up then expressing during the feed to encourage supply to ensure she could continue bf once there was no need to top up. She could also have been advised to bf on demand through day and have one nigger feed with bottle and pump during that.

What then happened was she went home and.found it really hard there on in to establish and she was gutted.

I,m sorry, Bluedoglead- i’ve had enough of being misquoted and having motives attributed to me on zero evidence. I am very sorry you have had a crap time and I hope things get better for you very soon.

“You might have succeeded if you had tried differently”

And you can’t see the problem in that statement. ”

I certainly see a problem with saying that in those terms to an individual woman.

But I didn’t.

“Most women ... it would have worked if you had tried differently.

Who the fuck are you to say that to an individual woman. ”

I didn’t say that either. And I didn’t say anything to an individual woman.