Women who don’t be believed for their reasons not to BF - a feminist issue?

I think the best thing you could do for yourself in real life is if someone starts talking about breastfeeding just shut it down. Change the subject. Its not helpful to you.

This is a very strange thread in my opinion I've skipped out a couple of pages but I wanted to say that I have been on breastfeeding threads with Bert in the past and reacted much the same way you did Op, thinking that any promotion or discussion of the benefits of breastfeeding was a criticism of those who couldn't or didn't. I truly don't think Bert was attacking you in any way. Your thread asked if breastfeeding could be a feminist issue. Bert tried to answer that, not making any comment on your personal situation.

I took against bert on previous threads because I took discussion over the benefits of breastfeeding as personal slight against those who couldn't .However that was a few months ago and I've since come to terms with the fact that I couldn't breastfeed. The breast is best message is very damaging to women who are suffering after a traumatic birth such as I had, however it's an important distinction to make that somebody saying that breastmilk is best is not attacking mothers who couldn't breastfeed. Sometimes formula is best for both mother and baby.

In my case I knew that having a mother who was not suffering from a mental breakdown was more important to my child than breast milk. The problem is that is such an emotive subject and tied up for me within a traumatic birth in which I nearly lost my child. The way i saw it initially was that i failed to carry him to term and also failed to breastfeed. Now I can see that my decisions when I was in the most stressful and harrowing time of my life have actually helped my child to thrive and it was absolutely the right decision to make. I hope that you can soon come to terms with the fact that you couldn't breastfeed and that if any nosey people ask you about it just tell them you don't want to talk about it. Counselling helped me immensely and I would really urge you to look in to see whether there is any provision in your local area for maternal counselling.

Bluedog I was saying that I’ve never heard of them so they’re not something that’s routinely advised by the nhs. I was sympathising with you that they sound completely ridiculous! Of course a bloody cookie can’t help you breastfeed. I don’t think your experiences of hpcs are common place, that does not mean that I disbelieve you. I don’t think you sound like you’re in a place to have a rational conversation so I’m going to leave this thread now. I’m sorry for that but I do hope you find some sort of closure for the ordeal you’ve been through.

When you consider the breastfeeding rates of the UK vs other countries I think many people who 'couldn't' breastfeed probably could have with the correct help or the will to do so. I say that as someone who "failed". I don't think that's really arguable.

However I do think it's a feminist issue that anyone actually gives a shit or that women feel they need to justify their choices.

Once the child is weaned his dad can let him spend 20 years on nuggets and people would think he was a great father for trying

Bluedog - rumpled literally is saying she haven't heard of them. I haven't either. That is discussion, the sharing of information, it is not accusing anyone of lying.

Rumpel saying it is not normal within the NHS is acknowledging that you have experienced something which is not right and (hopefully) unusual.

I think that your experiences and the trauma you have experienced may be making it very difficult for you to hear other people speaking without interpreting their words as a personal attack on yourself.

That is bizarre. I’ve never heard of them. They strike me as being in the same category as chocolates that help you ‘lose weight’. I do think bluedog and accrual you might have been really unlucky with the hpc’s you’ve had/met. The things you’re descibing just don’t sound very normal within the nhs.

Heartofglass: "I went to the toilet and ended up screaming down the corridor for my husband because i needed to push and i thought i was going to push him out down the loo! They managed to get me in a room and on a bed and i pushed him out! They really need to start listening, you know your own body!"

I know the discussion's moved on, but just wanted to acknowledge your post. That's really awful. But also really common, I think. What a relief that you managed to get to a bed in time.

I mean in the specific circumstances bluedog is talking about it seems to me she has good reason to raise a complaint about the health visitor, and possibly about the midwives too. But that doesn't mean that in general when a woman says "have you tried x" that she is actually saying "I don't believe you".

Oat biscuits to help boost your supply. And hailed as salvation to all bf woes round my way.

What the hell is a lactation cookie ?

Cabbage leaves didn't work for me, no, but it's one of the only pieces of advice I was given! Ive breastfed now for nearly eight years (in total) and I've never heard of lactation cookies, either.

I don't think questions like that are inappropriate in general because I do think we use questions not just to give advice but also to gather info, and we may think that in the future remembering the conversation may have value to everyone involved. Unfortunately they may be inappropriate in individual circumstances where women have difficulty talking about the topic, but we can't know that unless you say 'I don't want to discuss this'. And for every woman who doesn't want to discuss it, there may be another who does - so what to do? The answer can't be that women stop talking about breastfeeding, or midwives give even less advice/support about it?

@Rosenberg I just don't think it's appropriate. If someone says "I couldn't breastfeed" surely it means they tried everything they were aware of that they wanted to try. If I'd never heard of lactation cookies, what would be the point of me hearing about them now, two months down the line? Even if they would have been guaranteed to work (they're not, they're bloody biscuits not magic) I'd then be left feeling crap that maybe I could have done it if only I'd tried them.

Accrual - "If you say to someone "I couldn't breastfeed" and they say "but did you try lactation cookies / la leche league / rugby ball hold" it means they don't believe you"

I don't think that's right. Are you overlooking the way that we use questions not just to give advice, but also to gather knowledge? Like if you said you struggled with mastitis, and I said did you try cabbage leaves - I wouldnt be implying I don't believe you about the mastitis, I would be saying a) I've heard cabbage leaves can be helpful in those circumstances and b) if you've tried that and didn't work, please let me know so I can store that info in my own brain information bank. Does that make sense?

Nobody should ever offer unsolicited advice or comment to individuals.

The midwives are probably running through a list off things that may help, they should be doing that! Some other women will find them doing that valuable, I would have, and you are free to tell them you don't require their advice as it is not useful to you, or just switch off while they are talking about it if you aren't feeling up to saying that.

The health visitor sounds like a dismissive dickhead. Apologies to any of you who are HVs, but I've encountered several who are like this, tbh. If she makes you feel uncomfortable or that she is treating you poorly, you can refuse to see her. I have done this with HVs - ask your GP if you can be referred to someone else and put in a complaint. What she said was insensitive at best.

In my experience women being treated like we don't know our own minds or bodies, and we aren't honest about them either, is pretty much the norm when we encounter the medical establishment. That is very much a feminist issue, yes.

If you say to someone "I couldn't breastfeed" and they say "but did you try lactation cookies / la leche league / rugby ball hold" it means they don't believe you. A more appropriate response might be, "I'm sorry to hear that, do you want to talk about it?" I've never had the latter.

I couldn't breastfeed.

It nearly broke me, PND, suicidal thoughts, feeling like a failure. And the people that made me feel the worst were woman.

The men in my life DF, DG, friends, colleagues etc did not care and were just happy that there was a lovely healthy baby in the family and couldn't care less how the baby was fed.

If you ever have judged or applied pressure on a new mother to continue to breastfeed shame on you. You have no idea what she is going through, unless she asks you (or you are a qualified lactation professional) please shut up.