Labour’s NEC Set To Confirm Trans People Allowed On All-Women Shortlists

I'd hope that given this announcement JJ will rethink. If she is going to use the money to defend VA then I will withdraw my donation and re-give to another crowdfund specifically set up to legally challenge the inclusion of self-identifying women on AWS.

Cool heads needed.

Yes. Things are moving quickly. Nobody can really make any certain decisions until after the NEC announcement.

I have reservations about any test case solely associated with Venice. But that's not what the update actually said. And in any case, at the time it was written, JJ believed the Labour Party had backed down on self-ID for AWS (as they knew it would fail on a legal challenge) but was pressing on with self-ID for CLP officers and the like (which even JJ's advice was suggesting was probably legal).

If the LP now presses ahead with unlawful AWS, I can't imagine JJ will be diverting any significant funds.

In terms of the equality act, you are quite right in that it mimics self ID, on the basis of 'even thinking about transitioning is a protected characteristic'.

Sounds to me that self id is already law then. Would be difficult to keep Lily Madigan off a short list.

We lost in 2004.

I agree with Lang.

Let's sit and wait. Because if Labour does endorse self-ID onto AWS then it is going to be a long old haul. Cool heads needed.

We may need separate funds, one specifically to challenge the self-ID with respect to AWS (in which case we can attract women and men from all parties and no party affiliation). We can be very broad with this and sell the fact that this is a test case about men who can just self-ID into women's spaces with absolutely no gatekeeping whatsoever.

There can be other funds to deal with other matters.

Click on the Huff post link and scroll down to the picture of Heather Peto and Stevie Wonder on a galloping horse could tell you that's a man in a bloody frock. Why are we being legally forced to believe this utter nonsense?

crustychristmastree

People are getting upset about changing the criteria to get a gender recognition certificate. It's really only prisons, at the moment which demand one.

Although, from a conceptual point of view, being able to legally be a woman on the basis of filling out a form is ridiculous. And one's imagination can only explode at the way this might be exploited.

' Thinking about transitioning' being a protected characteristic is almost self ID by any other name.

But it does at least specify that you have to have thought about it.

And there are exemptions in place. In terms of the equality act.

I could be wrong, but I don't think those exemptions can be invoked for someone who has gender recognition certificate. Which is why self ID to get one is so dangerous.

I think wait. And maybe contact Jennifer directly with a link to this thread to show concerns.

(Sorry, posting quickly while doing ten other things - that sounded very demanding!)

So do we ask for a refund or not? I'm so loathe to let the momentum (unfortunate word) of the last few days backslide now, but equally I don't want to be associated with the kind of thing I've seen on VA's twitter feed.

Urgh my grammar in that last post! YKWIM.

I'd be happy for them to use the fund to challenge the harassment and doxing by Madigan et al legally of multiple Labour Party women but not solely to challenge Venice's suspension. I would also donate separately to a fund for that but I think it should be a choice.

Yes, that statement doesn't say its specifically for Venice so it would probably be as well to hold off on refunds and see if there's a statement issued after today's Labour statement.

DrRadFem is a bit of a fucking eejit tbh.

But it’s no good at all if the test case fails and I seriously think that some of the things that Venice said really go close to the wind.
The comment she made about not being able to wait until lily pretends to hurt herself isn’t exactly going to win much favours.

Thanks Datun. Feels like an extremely important point to make to people is that's right! (You're usually right!)

She is attention seeking. and I don't think her intentions are honourable. She bloody well doesn't speak for me. Her videos are fucking awful, have never finished one and she appears to be pissed most of the time.

If all the Gender Critical flags are for Venice, we are fucked. I'm sorry, I didn't want to be publicly slagging her and I wouldn't normally, but I'm not accepting her as the poster girl for gender critical women

We need a word which is the equivalent of "transphobia", one which means the irrational fear and hatred of female biology, a prejudice against people who are daring to be their authentic self (ie women), so that we can call out hate speech for what it is. I could suggest "sexism" - any other ideas

Gynophobia. Misogyny also does quite nicely.

I think people should hold off on requesting a refund.

The update was written before the HuffPo article and at a point where JJ was expecting Labour to back down and act within the law.

It's a fast-moving situation. Let's wait until the NEC has announced its decision. Because if they decide to go with self-ID, then that legal challenge is back on.

Let's just wait until the end of today.

Yes, it just becomes tit for tat doesn't it? The money need to be spent on ensuring the law is upheld and sticking to the facts.

Maybe JJ needs to clarify as its not clear what the money will be spent in?

I agree it feels wrong to use someone who sometimes goes off script as a test case. But it might well be because it's the only test case they have.

James has been asking people to contact her if they have been suspended.

So she might be trying to find more people, or more people she views as credible.

I understand it, you can't just take it to a solicitor on the basis of the concept. You have to have an actual person who is been damaged by it.

Stopmakingsense

Gynophobia.

If the money is repurposed from defending AWS to defending a suspended party member, then this will also need to be defended:

twitter.com/madigan_lily/status/940715799261728769?lang=en

It will just turn into a "who's been the biggest meanie" competition. Don't spend the money defending stuff like that. Please.

crustychristmastree

I'm not a legal bod, but as I understand it, there are two parts to this. The equality act and the gender recognition act.

The gender recognition act gives someone the legal status woman.

Your screenshot is referring to the equality act.

Which means, that you cannot be discriminated against if you are thinking of transitioning. Which could be telling your best mate.

It doesn't give you the legal status women. But it is nonetheless a protected characteristic.

As is your sex. Which is where the conflict arises.

Feminists have been trying to keep the gender recognition act as something that requires stiff criteria, largely to stop men being transferred to women's prison. Because that is about the only arena in which you have to have a gender recognition certificate.

In terms of the equality act, you are quite right in that it mimics self ID, on the basis of 'even thinking about transitioning is a protected characteristic'.

I think The Labour Party using self ID, are not referring to the gender recognition act version of self ID, ie they won't be legally women. They are referring to the protected characteristic.

I think.

I too think the funds need to fight the AWS, that is what I donated for, but would donate separately to defend that individual.

We need a word which is the equivalent of "transphobia", one which means the irrational fear and hatred of female biology, a prejudice against people who are daring to be their authentic self (ie women), so that we can call out hate speech for what it is. I could suggest "sexism" - any other ideas?