Women failing to attend smear tests

So we should stop all screening programmes should we.......

Let all adults be 100% for their own health, I'm guessing we should also scrap vaccination programmes and stop doing research as well, is that the answer?......

Jane-
It's often not even presented as choice, people are pressued into it or made to feel incapable of making a decision about their own body.

There was discussion on news this week about breast cancer gene testing and it made me think, if this became standard screening- how many women are going to undergo mastectomies of healthy tissue to minimise risk however small- and would people still be saying "it's not worth the risk" and pressuring women into it.

The only screening I know about prostate cancer is a blood test for PSA. It’s also notoriously unreliable.

But yes, I suspect that the reason why women have made to feel guilty/pushed to get some procedures done wo any explanation is because they aren’t seen as worth explaining to. After all, we all know that women don’t/can’t understand science anyway dint we?

Re screening, worth also thinking about another effect rarely talked about. The nocebo effect. It’s basically the opposite of the placebo effect in that knowing that you will have x procedure (or medicine) will have a detrimental effect in your health, even if it’s an inert substance/procedure.
In effect, having a smear test, then waiting for a resultt, maybe having to do another procedure to check can have a negative effect in the body too....

Mammograms are basically X-rays that carry cancer risks by default.... lots of discussions around if whether actually having said mammograms don’t actually increase cancer risks because of that.....

As I said before, who decides what the rate of take up should be?

Should it be 100%? Or is 75% an acceptable rate?

Who decides? At what point do we allow women to make decisions as an adult? Who are these people to decide 'what is best for us'?

A few basic points:

1. If they want to up rates, then making it as easy as possible is step one otherwise there will always be reasons why its not practical
2. Are certain groups of women acting differently to others? If so, what is driving it? Is education playing a part? We need to understand exactly what is really going on.
3. The point of consent in medicine is that you make an informed choice without undue pressure. In the case of smears undue pressure is used as a deliberate tactic in health promotion and information is regularly withheld to help increase rates. The ethical contradiction is appalling.
4. This type of unethical practice under mines trust in HCP across the board and a hidden side effect of excess pressure to have a smear can lead to women avoiding the doctor for unrelated issues, thus potentially putting them at risk of other health issues which could be life threatening in the most extreme cases. You might save a few lives from cervical cancer but is it increasing death rates elsewhere in a way that can not be measured?
5. How does shaming women to have a smear or calling them stupid for not having one, persuade them to go to the doctor? Its just as likely to put them off and reinforce the problem by making them believe even more that their fears will be dismissed by HCP as petty or trivial or otherwise invalid.
6. Yes side effects are still important, even if you can die of cervical cancer. Its a personal choice to decide whether having a treatment which will harm you in other ways is worth it. Seen through the prism of a 90 - 100% chance of severe anxiety or flash backs versus a small change of having cancer then some might want to take that gamble because of the quality of life. Seen as a decision about the possibility of being able to have kids or risking a chain of events that leads to unnecessary treatment isn't for everyone.
7. Also screening is different from diagnostic tests too. Ignoring symptoms is a totally different kettle of fish. Yet women with symptoms are seen as less of a priority and struggle to be taken seriously potentially because of the focus being so heavily on screening.

Treating women as stupid or with contempt in health promotion is likely to be counter productive across the board. Listen to what they are saying properly rather than doing a shitty little survey and carrying on with the emotional blackmail shit.

Risk is measured by different people in different ways. What a medical professional would decide to do themselves, if not necessarily what the dry statistician would recommend based on the data in front of them. Why? Because life experience isn't about data and statistical risk is it?

Unless you properly understand and respect what motivates people, you'll never be able to change behaviour.

I don’t go for them. I’ve had enough of hamfisted practitioners wielding their speculums and making me bleed. If self testing were available I’d participate and I suspect many others would too.
And yes, I have heard all the arguments in favour and it doesn’t change a thing. My body, my decision.

Wrt Jade btw, just in case anyone reading is thinking you ask for a smear when you're symptomatic, as she was- don't! Smear tests are for women not experiencing any cervical cancer symptoms. If you are, you may waste valuable time trying to get a smear test.

*uptake

Imagine if those of us who avoid smears partially or fully because of the increased risk of miscarriage and premature birth took that same sanctimonious attitude with you as you do with us jane. If I were a bit more of a cunt, I could write a lovely paragraph. I won't though.

AintNo that's appalling.

My mother was given a smear when she was around 50 and didn't want one but the nurse did it without her permission. I assume she went for another reason and the nurse didn't tell her she would be performing a smear too. My mother said she walked out the doctors and went and bought a packet of cigarettes (she hadn't smoked for 25 years) and started smoking again from then on..

You can argue your rights not to have one done until you are blue in the face, but I personally choose not to take that risk as a responsible adult with dependent children. No health screening is compulsory but it's done for no one else's benefit than your own. Quite what there is to argue about that is beyond my simple brain

So,@Walkingdead11, you want to increase upstate? How do you go about that?

ScreamingValenta my husband hasn't been invited for one of those, maybe because he sees doctor regularly because of his other health issues. He actually gets on really well with the GP, they are like two old buddies meeting for a chat. I pity whoever books the appointment after him. I see a different GP usually and I am a quick in and out type of patient. I suppose at least we balance up.

Jade goody had adenocarcinoma which is typically not picked up by a smear test anyway. The figures clearly show that the vast majority of women who undergo treatment do so unnecessarily. I'm disturbed that there are public discussions about women's consent to make choices about their own bodies.

I totally understand that they have saved lives and why people would want them. What I resent is being told that I must have one, and if I don't I'm stupid, irresponsible, my fault if I get cancer etc.
I didn't like the way I was being pressured into having a treatment I didn't want, I didn't feel like my opinion mattered.
It's my body and I have the right to decline having made an informed choice. Whilst there are a number of women who have been saved, there are many more than this that have had unnecessary procedures- which carry its own risks. There are also women who are screened and their cancer missed- in some cases leading to a false assurance that they were ok even if they had suspect symptoms.
If someone wants a smear test- great, but if you don't it's understandable and you shouldn't be made to feel like a reckless idiot for saying no.

Oh sorry. There was a crying laughing emoticon in the response after a PP talked about being abused. I think you actually just said she was stupid though, on re-reading.

Yes well quite.

The cervical screening in UK has been changed since I was young as it was doing more harm than good.

Women should be given the facts, the pros and cons, and it should be taken into account that it's a very invasive procedure.

Same as men are around prostate cancer in fact.

This always comes back to women not really being trusted. PP comment about birth is relevant.

I was watching earlier on the news about epilepsy drug and birth defects - govt decided women should not be told about risks??!!!??? Then you get women being refused getting tubes tied "in case they change their minds" and so on.

Look at the vaginal mesh thing as well.

Just awful.

They need to find out the real reasons women don't go and then address them. Not just shout at them. Bit like BF really, women get shouted at and then no support when it comes to actually doing it. All comes down to money + paternalistic attitude I guess.

Grannytomine He was invited for a general 'wellness' check when he was 50, but that's the only time he has been 'summoned' to the doctor - and the wellness check was just height, weight, blood pressure and questions about health - no mention of prostate testing.

UpABitLate

So, you've not been able to point out where I have laughed at traumatised women........thought not.......... 🤔

@Walkingdead11

My facts are perfectly straight, thanks.

Jade Goody always had smear tests however when she began getting abnormal results she decided to bury her head in the sand.

I'm 41 & have never had a successful smear, it's painful & I just can't relax enough.

I don't bother even going for them now.

RogueBiscuit if you read the link UpABitLate posted you will see they don't routinely get offered it.

God forbid we actually take some personal responsibility for our own health, thanks for reminding me I need dentist appointment. I missed my last appointment, my dentist berated me, really should have told her to stick it, caring about my dental health the mad bitch!........

DH and I were talking about this earlier when it was on the radio - the news story was that rates are down because women have body hang ups.....

I said to DH "what bollocks!" I think SOME women don't go for that reason but I think that's the minority.....

• body issues
• don't think it applies to them
• how difficult it is to get an appt/access a clinic
• traumatic experience (non smear related)

None of these on their own (past traumatic experience aside) IMO would stop a woman going BUT add to any of these how bloody painful and uncomfortable the whole experience is - I cramp for days afterwards and usually bleed, I don't know many women who don't have similar..... and you have the answer!