Women's marches today

And it is possible that a lot of people of either sex and all ethnic heritages are actually deeply misogynist, even unconsciously and they weren't ready for a woman president, so it was piss easy to succeed in a propaganda war to thwart Clinton... although tbf - even in the face of it all she did still win the popular vote

We were discussing this last night. We met some Americans who were here on holiday shortly before the election and were astounded at the anti Clinton stuff they spouted. It seems to me that the misogyny is so deep rooted that even electing a, for want of a better expression, squeaky clean woman president would be a stretch for many. That Hilary had given opinions (how dare she) and made decisions that some disagreed with before made her a write off in many people’s eyes. Trump, of course, isn’t subject to the same scrutiny.

BTW, as a Brit, can't say I really understand certain American sensibilities - I always get massive culture shock in the US because American norms are so different from Europeans.

I remember seeing a woman (I think an East Coast 'blue' resident) who always votes Democrat, said she would be voting Trump even though she is not Republican and doesn't like him, but she felt she trusted Hilary Clinton less - she felt that Trump's desperation to be popular meant that the public would be able to influence him more than Hilary... It was more like, better the devil you know...

I didn't get it and I don't get it, but I wasn't swirling in a load of anti-Clinton propaganda in America at the time.

And it is possible that a lot of people of either sex and all ethnic heritages are actually deeply misogynist, even unconsciously and they weren't ready for a woman president, so it was piss easy to succeed in a propaganda war to thwart Clinton... although tbf - even in the face of it all she did still win the popular vote.

That is fab Jog. Ab Fab.

You didn't get anything like enough appreciation for yout turf joke jog, but I thought it was funny

sooooo those white women voted for Trump because they are poor and uneducated and not down right racist confused.

What was the motivation of the WOC who voted for Trump in your opinion 80sQueen?

because being religious means you can't be racist at the same time

That's not what I meant. I want to know/understand how evangelical Christianity impacts on patriarchal, homophobic and racist attitudes in the US. Even when it is to the personal detriment of the (white, female) voter.

@PocketCoffeeEspresso sooooo those white women voted for Trump because they are poor and uneducated and not down right racist confused. Okay then, my mistake. This is why WOC cannot fully stand with feminism as you won't own it for what it is.

I don't know why they voted for trump - there certainly seems to be the idea that it was his immigration policies that won it for him - it's possible - actually likely - that poorer/uneducated/white women in the US are more likely to be racist - these things aren't mutually exclusive, it certainly stands examination - just like 'middle class white feminism' is often racist and classist (or at least, uninclusive of people 'not like them'). Perhaps they are all racist, and the educated white women voted for Clinton for some reason that overrode their inherent racism? I don't know.

@LangCleg because being religious means you can't be racist at the same time

@TallulahWaitingInTheRain I appreciate your comment

@PocketCoffeeEspresso sooooo those white women voted for Trump because they are poor and uneducated and not down right racist . Okay then, my mistake. This is why WOC cannot fully stand with feminism as you won't own it for what it is.

These people do not represent women as far as I am concerned - cue the feminist outrage

😂

We could make hats out of this: bit heavy maybe, perhaps those with sturdy necks could take a witch style hat and the more delicate flowers could fashion something more like a fascinator.

a parade of transactivists in dickhead hats would be a sight to see

I keep thinking about what so called "TERFs" should dress up as at any future marches/demonstations, i quite like the idea of a large number of women all dressed up as witches, black pointy hats and all...

Oh Assigned that is perfect!

Best ever

twitter.com/untamableshrews/status/954885699030859776

@ALittleBitOfButter nope it was over 50% of white women. A uncomfortable fact I'm sure but it needs to be acknowledged and addressed not minimised.

Over 50% of white women who voted - 53% to be exact.

Of those white women with a college education, 51% voted for Clinton, the biggest difference was white women without a college education - 62% voted for trump - by all means, lets talk about the intersection of being poor/uneducated/female and see what might be going on there - but lets not pretend that it's all women's fault - if only women had voted, Clinton would have won, and lets certainly not use this as another stick for 'white middle-class feminism' because it's the working class which drove trump's victory.

But what has this got to do with not centering reproductive systems in feminism?

I just wanted to be clear that we need to reclaim the concept of intersectionality so we can use it properly, not just to make a rhetorical point.

It's not ok to briefly reference women of colour in order to discredit transactivism, in the same way that it's not ok for TIMs to briefly reference women of colour in order to discredit radical feminism, if nobody doing the referencing has any intention of taking seriously the actual oppressions uniquely faced by women of colour.

But of course female reproductive systems should be centred in women's marches.

Yes I'd been dubious for a while but the TRA reaction to the Women's March was probably my Peak Trans moment too.

Today is the 1st anniversary of me reaching Peak Trans and starting to read the Feminism chat here. I couldn't believe what I was reading when I stumbled across the TRA response to the marches last year, it felt like a real life The Onion article.

Perhaps. But I think we should also acknowledge that racism is a thing here in the UK in terms of both domestic and global relations, that woc face a unique combination of oppression, and that mainstream feminism could do a lot more to acknowledge and address this.

I agree. But what has this got to do with not centering reproductive systems in feminism?

I think we should also acknowledge that racism is a thing here in the UK in terms of both domestic and global relations, that woc face a unique combination of oppression, and that mainstream feminism could do a lot more to acknowledge and address this.

Absolutely. You know - real intersectionality. Likewise with class. Feminism shouldn't be a campaigning group for white middle class ladies.

But until we move past the fundamental crisis and erasure of all women that genderists are posing, I don't see how we can begin to even approach it.

Perhaps. But I think we should also acknowledge that racism is a thing here in the UK in terms of both domestic and global relations, that woc face a unique combination of oppression, and that mainstream feminism could do a lot more to acknowledge and address this.

It's always shocking to see what a huge percentage of white women in the US voted for Trump. But what I'd like to see broken down is how that correlates with the religious right there. If you took out women who are from fundie/evangelical backgrounds, what would the percentages look like?

Not trying to minimise racism in the US - but I think here in the UK we forget what an impact the religious right has.