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Original poster

If I am outwardly a white woman, to others, but born in Africa and identify as a black woman?

68 replies

SherlocksTripleLock · 20/01/2018 17:07

Then why shouldn't the state recognise this? I am a British citizen, btw.

If transgenderism is recognised, why not trans-racialism? I have always felt my ethnic identity is more in line with where I was born.

Genuine question. I am wondering why there are rules for some, but not for others who feel 'different inside' as well.

I'm sure there are a multitude of scenarios of self-identifying individuals that wish to be recognised. Where does the buck stop?

OP posts:
titchy · 20/01/2018 21:00

When is anyone's legal ethnicity noted anywhere? Birth certificate? No. Passport? No. Driving licence? No.

Nice try OP.

Identify as who or what you want, just don't go demanding access to BME scholarships and the like.

Elendon · 20/01/2018 19:15

Well, let's give thanks to African regions peoples who migrated into European regions around 30,000 years ago. Without them, there would be no Europeans. Mixed in with a bit of Neanderthal as well, basically at this time, Europeans were mainly Neanderthal.

FissionChips · 20/01/2018 19:08

It’s no more crazy than someone identifying as the opposite sex IMO. Therapy is the way to go.

bananagrabber · 20/01/2018 18:54

Agh sorry about the multiple posts. I checked repeatedly after each one and nothing had posted! Must be some issue with my laptop/ browser.

Original poster
SherlocksTripleLock · 20/01/2018 18:53

Fekko I have experienced almost exactly the same discrimination as you describe.

Outwardly to British people I look white, but I am not. I self-identify as black African.

OP posts:
Original poster
SherlocksTripleLock · 20/01/2018 18:50

Samewitches the NHS - and other medical bodies - say they don't recognise ethnic dysphoria, neither is there/will there be funds for 'ethnic change' surgery as it's not a recognised condition. I've been able to tan my skin darker, dye and curl my hair. I have thought about having my facial features changed and buttock implants to match my inward identity, but cannot afford to have those done.

I have not yet approached any governmental body to request official recognition of my ethnic self-identity. I feel for legal reasons they are justified in their decision not to, as biologically I am white, even though I have gone to some lengths to change this and feel intrinsically that I am a black African woman. I do hold onto a hope that that trans-racialism will one day reach equal recognition as transgenderism has in its current form.

I do acknowledge that I cannot force my self-identity on others, I only ask people accept me for me, because I realise there are ramifications for others if I force my self-identity to be officially changed without scrutiny.

OP posts:
Geronimoleapinglizards · 20/01/2018 18:48

It's interesting that one position is utterly taboo (thankfully) and the other not only isn't, but people are issuing threats if you don't also stand aside and say 'please co-opt my position.'

It's good we care (more) about not offending people who have been treated so badly historically but why can't we care more about women?

Glitterypinksoap · 20/01/2018 18:41

I am mixed race enough that I would have been legally unable to marry in the USA pre the civil war, and that I'd have been in danger of a concentration camp end under Hitler. However I look 100% white European. I'm aware of and proud of my cultural heritage, but wouldn't dream of insisting I am black and appropriating an experience and a culture I don't have and can't possibly understand.

Fekko · 20/01/2018 18:26

I worked worth a South African (Caucasian) woman who studied in the states. She applied for a scholarship ‘for africans’ (note nor race or colour) but was turned down because she was white.

Geronimoleapinglizards · 20/01/2018 18:24

Do you eat, I don't know, mealie pap and braid your hair? Do you wear bright colours and, er, live in a mud hut (wracks brain for reductive, offensive stereotypes)?

If so you are definitely properly black. You should apply for a scholarship which is designed to support black people in some way.

Anyone who says you aren't black is a bigot

SleepFreeZone · 20/01/2018 18:21

This makes me think of those stories you read of wild animals that have been domesticated and raised by dogs or similar and think they’re a dog even though they’re a sheep. It’s very much nurture over nature but biologically they’re still a sheep!

viques · 20/01/2018 18:21

OP so if a black child was adopted by a white family and was exposed to the cultural and social environment of an ethnically white culture would that child, in your eyes, be white ? Do you think that child would be viewed as white by others?

I can, in some ways see what you are saying, that your cultural roots are not the same as your genetic roots. But by saying you are culturally one thing you are denying your genetic heritage.

Culture can be changed, you can't change your genes.

Eminybob · 20/01/2018 18:19

*as a woman

Eminybob · 20/01/2018 18:18

If you are white, and born in Europe, how can you identify as black African? I’m not trying to be goady; I genuinely don’t get it. Because surely your experience of life is actually very different to someone who is black African?

“If you are male, and born with a penis, how can you identify a woman? I’m not trying to be goady; I genuinely don’t get it. Because surely your experience of life is actually very different to someone who is a woman?”

Battleax · 20/01/2018 18:08

I think OP is striking a pose to make a point.

Samewitches · 20/01/2018 18:03

Who's stopping you identifying as black African? I get your point, but have you ever been told officially that you can't?

Original poster
SherlocksTripleLock · 20/01/2018 18:01

banana some of Rachel's story resonates with me. I was born in an ex-colonial African country and was strongly encouraged by my family to follow white protocols.

OP posts:
bananagrabber · 20/01/2018 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bananagrabber · 20/01/2018 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bananagrabber · 20/01/2018 17:53

something's not working properly with my posts but there was another good interview at
www.thestranger.com/features/2017/04/19/25082450/the-heart-of-whiteness-ijeoma-oluo-interviews-rachel-dolezal-the-white-woman-who-identifies-as-black

Battleax · 20/01/2018 17:53

Outwardly I am white. 'White European' is the ethnicity I was assigned at birth. However, I self-identify as black African, as that is who I feel I am inside.

Those fascist midwives again Sad

Battleax · 20/01/2018 17:53

Outwardly I am white. 'White European' is the ethnicity I was assigned at birth. However, I self-identify as black African, as that is who I feel I am inside.

Those fascist midwives again Sad

bananagrabber · 20/01/2018 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
SherlocksTripleLock · 20/01/2018 17:51

Pottering my identity document says 'white', commonly known as 'white European' where I was born and raised. I shared similar cultural experiences to my black peers. I feel black, not white.

OP posts:
Mide7 · 20/01/2018 17:51

I might be mixing up something like race and nationality here but surely millions of people claim to be something else.

Obviously being white and claiming black is a fairly extreme example.

I’m thinking of Irish or Italian in America.