Transgender woman sues over ordeal in male prison

PencilsInSpace

Even the current GRC rules are 'low' no surgery is required. Just a diagnosis, a fee, and 'living as' chosen sex.

So theoretically, a transman could have a GRC, be sent to prison and be put in with the men. That would be horrendous.

And a transwoman with a GRC and a working penis is put in with the women.

Its batshit

Cannot believe the guidelines are where a prisoner has a GRC they MUST be housed according to their legal sex.

Another reason to completely do away with GRCs tbh. They are effectively useless anyway, given they were only made to counter the fact that same sex marriage was not possible. As same sex marriage is now possible, the original reason for GRCs is moot.

Guardian, sorry you're going to have to spell it out for me, I can't work out what you are saying you think will happen.

You know GuardianLions, I have always been one of those who thought a trans wing or something is a decent idea. But after reading your post, I actually do agree with you, have never seen it put quite like that before.

I am uncomfortable with the idea though, of fully transitioned (full srs, not implants) being put in with the men mind (though don't agree with them being in the female estate either). Though I guess solitary is still an option, if its that bad. The answer will be a lot of work but its this, MAKE PRISONS SAFER FOR ALL. This does not seem to be high on anyones priorities. I get that they are criminals, but they still deserve to be as safe as possible and its unreasonable to be all 'well you commit crime, you deserve everything that comes to you'

Hudson spent six weeks in jail in 2015, after she admitted head-butting a barman

From the article.

Act like a violent thug of a man and expect to be treated like one.

He got what was coming to him.

Don't lock him up with women.

I don't think they'd do it 'in house' do you?

I hope they have a rethink way before then

Guardian, you mean they wouldn't allow the abortion?

I imagine a transman raped in prison seeking an abortion will be the point they have a re-think.

Would a pre-op no hormones transman be put in a mens prison, even if they wanted? Of course they wouldn't for obvious reasons.

This is something that has been niggling at my mind for a couple of weeks now. The prison guidelines state that where a prisoner has a GRC they MUST be housed according to their legal sex. Discretion can only be applied where there is no GRC.

At the same time we have an astronomic rise in the number of girls IDing as trans.

At the same time we have a proposal to make getting a GRC stupidly stupidly easy.

I very much hope the prison service would find a way to not send a vulnerable transman with a GRC to the male estate but I think it would be legally ... interesting.

I posted a video upthread about how transwomen or 'titty girls' have such high status in American prisons, even over openly gay men who can get people killed for disrespecting them, that I imagine Tara, being used to prostitution as a she-male could really work the system and come out on top.

'Sex-work as usual' on the inside..

It wouldn't surprise me if this is considered as a reason to separate transwomen who have worked in the sex industry from the main population.

Well if they behaved properly they wouldn't be in prison!!

And what was Hudson wearing at the time?

Hudson also alleges that an inmate groped her breasts and genitals, leaving her “threatened, distressed and humiliated

Well alleges. Innocent until proven guilty.

both
I felt like I was starting to lose my mind

Why hasn't there been a trans man who has sued the MoJ because he didn't get to go to a male prison?

@GuardianLions "Why do a pair of implants trump all of the other male vulnerabilities to the extent they need their own wing or prison?"

where's the "like" button?

That's exactly it @GuardianLions. There is already protection for vulnerable prisoners in men's prisons.

Please someone who thinks there needs to be special wings/prisons/etc for trans prisoners with implants .....

Can you explain why they need their own wing more than gay men, pretty boys, disabled men, bookish men, men who can be extorted, men with a nervous disposition, men with learning disabilities, men who have lost their penis in an accident, etc?

Why do a pair of implants trump all of the other male vulnerabilities to the extent they need their own wing or prison? Please, please explain.

Not long ago you would have been put on some sort of register if you campaigned to get men into women's prisons, hospital wards etc yet now if you're against it you're a bigot

There's a powerful whiff of PIE type infiltration about all this.

Glittery "Third and trans specific space needed, that is the only way to provide it for all without anyone having to accept substandard rights."

the problem there will be like the problems we have now with other spaces - there are many transgender individuals who don't want separate spaces, they want to go into the space where they want to go and will say the authorities are prejudiced against them if they are told to go in trans spaces.

Surprised there are not more Anti Terfs on this thread. Amazing how quiet they go when a case like this hits the headlines.

Loads of men are at risk in men's prisons, that's why there are certain areas for people who need protection.

As with all things it is easier to treat the symptom with a quick fix, no thought of the consequences and women don't really matter anyway, than tackle the root cause.

They would also know Tara was a sex worker etc I don't think it would be right or reasonable to put Tara with the men.

Would a pre-op no hormones transman be put in a mens prison, even if they wanted? Of course they wouldn't for obvious reasons.

The issue here is not who is what and dicks and stuff but male violence - that is what needs tackling and then everything else gets better. Men need to step up here. They won't though will they, as it suits them to put GNC men in with the woman, given that they of all people are extremely wed to gender roles and ideas around what a man is, and what a man isn't.

I really do believe that Tara would be at risk in a male prison, same as lots of other GNC men, but given that men seem to see woman often as nothing more than a set of body parts, I think having those implants would be a problem.

However, Tara also shouldn't be in a women's prison, at least not mixing with the general population. Whether Tara is personally a risk or not - it's the prinsciple - do we allow people with working dicks in women's prisons? Do we allow men in if they say they are women? There needs to be a line and it is a complex issue but women must be protected - women in prison are a very vulnerable group and they are getting no mention in this. It's all about the men.