More women looking at porn.

Marquis
Acknowledging that males have a strong urge to penetrate bodies with their penises, and females are unable to penetrate bodies with their own sex organs, does not undo feminism.

Males can be socialised into not penetrating people and animals who do not want to be penetrated. In fact neglect and a lack of proper socialisation can lead to humans behaving in disturbing animalistic ways - male humans in particular.

In fact, downplaying the importance of socialisation in shaping human behaviour is often driven by misogyny and antifeminism because women do the majority of caring and early socialising of children, and antifeminists and misogynists have an interest in saying that women's contribution to society is worthless.

upabit namechange & SGB

I agree - you only know if it is ethical if you know the people in it - and even then I have been shocked to find out that relationships I thought were all tickety-boo were actually abusive behind the scenes, so you still have to be cautious.

I can image a scene of 'swingers' perhaps filming eachother and sharing it... but then again, it is usually the man in the couple that gets the woman into swinging, etc. It would be really hard to know.

Of COURSE you can tell who is looking.
It scares me how naive some people are.

IP addresses on non shared devices will be very accurate - your name, age, location etc.

From this you can mosaic profile the demographic, house price, car driven, credit history etc etc.

This data can be sold to companies for marketing etc...

" It means in a sense allowing them the opportunity to be evil as well as good - to give them the full moral and existential responsibility that comes with power."

You see things in a binary. People are people. Women as a class are oppressed by men as a class. Individual men and women may be "good" or "evil" or more likely a mixture, and actually the terminology here is weird. Still as a class, men commit the vast majority of violence, especially sexual violence, they orchestrate the wars etc etc. The aim of feminism is not to give women power over others that they can then choose to cause pain, commit rape etc etc. The aim is to stop men being so fucking violent all the time, an aim that a lot of men would benefit from as well.

The positing of oh in a matriarchy maybe women would go around raping children to death.... What's the point? It's unknown whether in a reversal women would commit crime at the same levels, or the same type of crimes.

In a conversation about pornography, globally it's an industry that does an awful lot of harm.

And for justneedaquicknamechange, if you want to watch videos of people you know well fucking that is AOK. I'm sure you are aware that a lot of what is marketed as "ethical" amateur etc is in fact nothing of the sort. The only way to be sure is if you know them.

"Being a feminist means recognising the agency of women to be evil."

This is an interesting perspective on feminism!

I thought it was about freeing women and girls from oppression but hey ho.

Everyone is penetrable.

A lot of cultural effort goes into training us to think of men as the penetrators and women as the penetrees.

Being a feminist means creating a civilization that is fit for purpose. I dont know where you got the idea that its about freedom to act as shitty as the next man.

Ok I've name changed cos this won't be popular.

I like looking at images of people having sex. I find it sexually gratifying and I use porn when I masturbate. I read sexually explicit material and view images.

I did not do it for a long time because I believed it was not womanly or right. I didn't do for a further period of time because I believed it was exploitative. I was repressing my natural response because of society.

I have researched and found porn available that is made by people who want to do it. Lots and lots of porn is exploitative. Some porn is made by participants who want to and enjoy it, I watch that.

I am fed up of being told how to enjoy myself sexually. My teens i tried to behave like a good girl. In my twenties feminists told me how to enjoy sex. Now I have the sex I like to have with myself or with others.

If you don't like watching other people have sex good for you. I do and so do other people, if we can do it in a way everyone enjoys, me watching, them performing then that's fine by me. Ethical porn has people of all shapes and sizes and levels of hairiness. It has made me feel better about my body because I regularly view lots of different body shapes enjoying sex.

"I don't think women are angels, but I think there is a basic thing going on - men have a strong urge to penetrate others and women grow up knowing they are 'penetrable' which colours our perspectives. I think this would influence any porn women would make."

As I mentioned before, my brief foray into gay porn showed that this makes a difference in what they consume as well.

Het sexuality, as presented in the language around it, societal attitudes including religious, all sorts of stuff, involves a male aggressor and a passive or dominated female. This is rape culture, it is all around us. Whether it's nature or nurture for so many men to feel this destructive sexual violence towards women (and also less often towards children and men) I don't know.

98% of sex offenders in prison in the UK are men. There is certainly something going on there.

We are in the world we are in

There is always an interest in exploring the question, in a different world, would women be just as bad?

And while it's an interesting question, it is irrelevant to the conversations about how things are now, who is being harmed etc.

Pornhub, for example, have no interest in a non capitalist non misigynist utopia.

OP refer to my previous post

"I think it's impossible to know"

The way I see it Marquis is that when a baby goes missing there are two different common narratives.

If the baby was stolen by a woman, this is because she is so desperately driven by her biology to steal a baby and love and care for it as her own. Usually she ends up giving the baby back when she comes to her senses.

If the baby was stolen by a man, it is because he is driven by his biology to want to fuck it, kill it then throw it away like a piece of rubbish once he is done with it.

Everybody hopes it is a woman who stole the baby.

Both the woman and man are biologically driven, but perhaps it is socialisation that makes the woman return the baby and the man kill them and throw them away...

I don't think women are angels, but I think there is a basic thing going on - men have a strong urge to penetrate others and women grow up knowing they are 'penetrable' which colours our perspectives. I think this would influence any porn women would make.

women seem better able to understand that just because we want something, doesn't mean we have the right to get it, if other people are involved.

Hear, hear...
In a nutshell

It's male entitlement that leads to porn and prostitution - that their sexual fantasy, their "right" to act it out or see it acted out with real people, is way more important than the wellbeing or consequences to the people on the other side of the equation.

Women can be terribly pervy but we are far less likely to take it out on others, whether that's by sexual abuse, paying to sexually abuse, paying to watch etc. We COULD if we wanted pay for sex with men, drug and sexually assault men, churn out loads of video content. But this is all far less common.

Whether it's nature or nurture I don't know. Certainly women seem better able to understand that just because we want something, doesn't mean we have the right to get it, if other people are involved.

Yes - acting out fantasies...

Fantasies are fantasies for a reason, in the main - because the reality does not live up to it and they are by nature solipsistic so actually unachievable without unfairly imposing them on other people with free wills and wishes of their own.

Anything fundamental I mean - food, shelter, education.

Not implying that utopia would mean that anyone had sexual access to whatever and whoever they wanted.

I think it's impossible to know what male or female sexuality, or pornography (if it existed) would look like in a non misogynist, non capitalist, non exploitative utopia where no-one had to want for anything.

There is plenty about how porn is affecting the sex lives of young women.

I also think that horrified fascination is part of the reason women and girls watch it - and because it's all that's available.

The fact is that mainstream porn is made by men for men with a very male oriented view of sex, what constitutes sex, who does what to who, who is active and who is passive. It represents female sexuality in no way at all. What it can do though is shape it, same as it does for men.

Both male and female sexual desire are altered by this.

Quentin I agree 100%

I think it's far more likely to be men who don't want to watch women being degraded/hurt than being skewed by trans women.
But as I said upthread I don't believe anything pornhub say.