Older women should step aside says Laura Hudson

I am another late blooming feminist (am mid thirties and my eyes have probably only really been opened in the last 3 or 4 years) and it was mostly thanks to Mumsnet!

Older women should step aside?

No.

Payfrozen, that comment about women not knowing/not havign the words to describe what's happening to them/ thinking it's their immediately made me think of a very good article in yesterday's Telegraph about women's pay at the BBC.
www.telegraph.co.uk/women/work/shock-acidic-self-loathing-bbc-women-suffering-fight-equal-pay/
(Apologies - it's behind a pay wall).

One paragraph in particular jumped out (I think I was reminded by your comment about articulate, highly competent professional women being embarrassed asking about pumping milk at work):

"After shock, comes denial, infused with an acidic dose of self-loathing. You blame yourself for “allowing” the situation. As a senior producer told me: “I’ve spent my whole career challenging received wisdom and asking difficult questions of those in power - so how did I let this happen to me?”"

Moved on from reproductive rights eh? Why?
I work with amazing, well educated women for a large organisation. They say

"I've got an interview but i wont get the job because I'm pregnant."

They look embarassed and actually ashamed asking if they can express and store breastmilk at work.

I have said on another thread that I'm 50 and was told as a child that education is wasted on a girl. My younger colleagues will have been told, "You can do whatever you want."

It's a strange big brother (as in 1984 not channel 5) double speak that makes some young women think things are fine or if then not it must be their fault.

For these women in some ways today's sexism hidden in plain sight and more insidious and toxic than the crap I grew up with.

Thecat you are totally spot on about feminism being late blooming for many of us - i think I was more of an aspiring cool girl (I'm not at all cool, which was an impediment) until my 30s when I had kids and started reading Mumsnet, and then fwr.

I still haven't read any feminist literature because it takes more time commitment than I have (read a good essay on 'there are no unmarked women' yesterday - that's about as long at I have for thoughts together!), and I think I'm pretty normal among my peers. It's a slow awakening, ideas percolating through until you realize that you're rad fem and looking forward to retirement so you can stop giving a shit what other people think about you

I wonder how dramatically she'd explode if someone quoted that bit about moving on from reproductive rights at her followed by "check your privilege".

Do they even notice that women who aren't part of their social group exist?

@Rufustherenegadereindeer1

So many words of wisdom and insight on this thread. I've had a lifetime of being expected to 'step aside' for men, in my career, politically, even on the pavement! Feminism has been the one place where women are centred, despite our many differences - until now according to Laura Hudson?

One of the best things I find about being older is that I don't feel the need to shut up and listen any more. That doesn't mean I don't continue to listen and learn from others, including much younger than myself, as everyone's experience is going to be different and you should never stop learning until they nail down the lid. What it does mean is that I feel I have enough life experience to be confident in my own knowledge and opinions. (If only my memory wasn't so awful...)

It is utterly ironic that intersectionality doesn't seem to apply to older women.

Indeed. The intersection of being a woman and being old is a particularly inhospitable place to be. It's where domestic violence in later life and elder abuse thrive.

Everything that TheCat has said is spot on.

As is this:

I wonder if she thinks older men should step aside from their movements too, or if it's just older women who are so uniquely valueless.

That was pretty coherent!

More coherent argument in the morning.

She can fuck right off.
Been a feminist all my adult life. Which is longer than she's been alive and not about to stfu now.

lardy
Don’t get me wrong I don’t mean every single iota of energy in life went into being desirable I just mean during sex. I didn’t spend much time thinking or exploring ‘what do I like?’, I spent the whole time trying to be good enough for the man. It makes me sad to think of it now but it just seemed normal at the time. I didn’t even have an orgasm with a man until I had been sexually active for about 10 years (to write that down is truly shocking!).
And I wasn’t even a prude I had loads of sex, loads of shit, unsatisfactory sex, living out what I thought men wanted and performing the role of ‘a sexy woman’.

And I think if people knew me in real life they’d be shocked to know that because I am a confident and self assured person in every other aspect of my life.

Btw, this is a brilliant thread. I’m learning and thinking from it. Thank you, all.

as all my energy as a young woman went into making sure I was sexually desirable

I was never attractive or sexy when I was young -always looked pretty plain and got by on my “personality”. It’s meant that I’m so used to being overlooked or considered unfuckable that now I’m almost 60 I don’t notice it. But I’ve always noticed the emphasis on women’s looks, because I’ve never taken my own for granted or see them as a source of power. I think it’s made getting through middle age so much easier.

So I know who I am. Which seems to have been very unattractive to men. Celibacy and spinsterhood not so much fun, but you get used to it and there are huge compensations!

Older women have been listening and learning, and that's why so many of us are now speaking out against TRA attempts to undermine women's rights.

(This person is only a few years younger than me so the fact that she's put herself in the "younger women" group amuses me.)

Stealth Yes - I changed my name too, years ago because now XH got a bit whiny about it. I had no knowledge of feminism back then
Changed it back at warp speed when I threw him out a few years back.

I would never ever change it again, any any man thinking I should would not be in my life for long.

The cat fhat's a really interesting point. Apologies if I'm repeating anyone d else but I wonder if there's also something about resisting feminism because of choices you made during that period. For example I changed my name when I got married.

Argh! That's not what I came onto the thread to say!

Inspired by that video, I wanted to give a belated thanks to some 'older women' who lent a hand when I was younger.

When a group of us decided to set up another feminist magazine, we were visited by two of the "Off Our Backs" (a brilliant US feminist newspaper - who used to carry Alison Bechdel's cartoons) who shared a lot of their experience and gave lots of practical advice (how to share subscription lists; how to build up a publishing fund; etc.) when we started up.

It was much appreciated.

True. I think Sheba Press published a book called "The Things That Divide Us" many years ago -- long since out of print and forgotten, looking at the various issues that divided women. I'd suggest it was one of the paving stones towards intersectional feminism. It's interesting that I never see it referenced

Another thing older feminists know - there has always been disagreement in feminism, because feminists are, you know, people and have a variety of priorities. For some feminists, equal pay/economic independence is the most important thing. Others are more concerned about racism; some mostly focus on reproductive rights and some prioritize stopping domestic violence (I know there are loads more aspects of feminism, don't worry.)
But if you look at other political groups (the Greens, Labour, anti-racism organisations) you will also see squabbling in-fighting, power struggles and fucking idiots. But for some reason it only seems to be feminism where a difference of opinion is The End Of The Movement! Feminism is broken! Stop it, women! You need a man to tell you how to do feminism...

I don't think younger women should keep quiet, step aside, or whatever. And I think we can all profit from listening - and then choosing, thinking, sifting, collaborating, developing.

I really don't think we can afford to let ageism (younger women against older women; older women against younger women) be a knife that cuts us.

I'm still smiling at the video. I so agree with her about awful, negative power of being hated as a feminist.

One of the other things that pissed me off as a young feminist, with old (ie. unpopular) opinions was how that lack of approval by men - and the hating bit - really impacted on our ability to raise our profile, get heard, get disseminated, get funded.

In a society where men still have more power, more money, and still control much of the access to power and money, not getting male approval is very silencing.