Cathy Newman and Jordan Petersen on C4 News

Are you both flirting with me?

Misogynist racist knuckledragger!

Are you both flirting with me?

folks please see the above exchange for a brief but pleasing clear example of why “engaging” and “debating” these topics is so frequently pointless

Pointless for who?

Catholic/Nationalist/Republican are NOT SYNONYMOUS.

^ folks please see the above exchange for a brief but pleasing clear example of why “engaging” and “debating” these topics is so frequently pointless. Point out that JP retweeted an anti-Semite this morning? Why, let’s bring up Northern Ireland. Point out the NI point is inaccurate? Pretend you said something else.

I don’t want to talk about the press treatment of NI sectarianism. It’s not relevant. It’s been brought up because this is how JP and his supporters “debate” - not through engaging on issues but on gish galloping, reframing, and distracting.

Thanks for the lesson, Eamo. That’s enough for now.

Look the trans issue is not the be all and the end all and it can’t be separated from the rest of gender politics. I mean Mike fucking Pence is on the same side as TERFs but making common cause with him on this issue would be an outright disaster for feminists. I’d point out that Eamo’s previous posts on feminism on MN are wholly hostile.

You are being conned if you think that Peterson and his ilk can be useful on a single issue then dropped when it’s convenient.

The kike comment is just fine, of course. Calling BLM protests “black rioters” is just descriptive. And no, the press does not routinely describe sectarian violence in NI as “Catholic” (you’re not the only Irish person here, Eamo, so I’d watch out before trying that shite on)

Aye they do. Catholic/Nationalist/Republican. Pick a label. They web will be full of examples.

Tell me what's wrong with labelling black people rioting as black rioters?

The kike comment is just fine, of course. Calling BLM protests “black rioters” is just descriptive. And no, the press does not routinely describe sectarian violence in NI as “Catholic” (you’re not the only Irish person here, Eamo, so I’d watch out before trying that shite on).

And there's a bit of a cheek talking about bigotry on a thread about Newman considering her past issue with Muslims.

Well going by our country's media handling of him this week that Marxist conspiracy against him is doing a shite job.

I did look at those links and while not pleasant (especially the fb link) His reaction to censorship (venues cancelling, name calling and protests against him) is pretty similar to the reaction we've all had on here to our right to free speech being threatened, with the behaviour of TRA's, violent angry protest, venues cancelling, online threats etc. I've seen posts on here with links to FB, twitter etc. Is it fair game? It appears to be the case...if it's not then what does that make us? It at least makes us as bad as him.

Holdme how do you feel about his stance on compelled speech versus preferred pronouns.

For me he has really focused the issue. He is prepared to fight and lose his career over this. He has spoken to trans men and women many of whom agree with him and are on his side. He has taken extensive legal advice and has also gained support from lawyers who fear they will be for to use compelled speech or face losing their license to practise.

It seems to me that he is almost a comedy hero for Terfs in some ways.

Don’t link to neo Nazis talking about “kikes” if you don’t want to be called an anti-Semite. Don’t link to Daily fucking Caller articles about “black rioters” if you don’t want to be called racist. And don’t say journalists who disagree with you are flirting with you and lying about harassment if you don’t want to be called a sexist piece of shit

If the rioters are black then theyre black surely? I live in a place prone to riots and the press would say 'Catholic rioters' or whatever. Of course they do, they're reporting facts. What is wrong with that? It's just proven my point. It's meaningless.

Thankfully, here on the feminist board I think we still know a misogynist when we see one.

Don’t link to neo Nazis talking about “kikes” if you don’t want to be called an anti-Semite. Don’t link to Daily fucking Caller articles about “black rioters” if you don’t want to be called racist. And don’t say journalists who disagree with you are flirting with you and lying about harassment if you don’t want to be called a sexist piece of shit.

Racist, anti Semite, bigot etc are becoming meaningless terms now. People are wise to it.

“Why is this guy retweeting anti-Semites?”

“How dare you attack the man?!”

Sorry. I’ll stick to delicate agreeable questioning of his idea that the mainstream media is a Marxist conpiracy against him.

The days of labelling everyone far right to discredit their views is over. Folk aren't stupid.

• to the likes of

I thinking that talking and listening to likes to Peterson, Yiannopolis and their fellow-travellers is what has led us to the far-right infestation of the status quo (especially in the US, and we need to learn from their example).

Wow that is a bad article...and it seems like all the comments below it agree that it's very poor. Pantomime villain - oh dear

However, opinion seems divided over the interview. I was just really disappointed that she didn't do some research and ask him about something like, I dunno, the trans rights issue. Seems like a really obvious and interesting place to start and it's also relevant and newsworthy.

Or she maybe could have addressed his religious beliefs which surprised me, as he is a clinical psychologist (said in the manner of a pantomime villain?!)

She could have addressed the issue of his online followers and trolling. She could have asked how he feels about Trump and his use of 'fake news' and tweets. That is another thing that doesn't sit well with me - he does seem to have some 'quirks'

I understand that there are issues with JP but as someone said previously the way you deal with that is to talk and listen more not less

It's almost like people are wise to the old attack the man, not the message.

In mainstream media interviews, Peterson will repeatedly express bafflement that his following is so alt-right. How could it be happening? It's so confusing to him!

The thing is, this is very difficult to believe, because he ALSO makes a habit (as he did just five hours ago) of retweeting anti-semitic conspiracy theorists like this: imgur.com/a/9W6it

That profile is also full of anime pornography. Weird that doesn't conflict with his "self-improvement" talk - almost like that's bullshit he doesn't mean!

It's like it's hard to believe he doesn't want his army of morons to harass people, when he repeatedly doxxes students who don't agree with him and directs his flying monkeys towards the profiles of (usually female) people who disagree with him (examples here here and here and here. Oh and here)

www.independent.co.uk/voices/cathy-newman-abuse-channel-4-jordan-peterson-metoo-backlash-latest-a8170031.html

Another Pulitzer winging its way to Indy Towers

I have no interest whatsoever in going down a reddit / youtube comments rabbit hole, in the same way I have no inclination to read over and over comments by TRA's, racists etc etc. That is a complete waste of time and really tells you very little about anything other than there are crazy people out there who are a waste of your energy. A bit like the wrestling with a pig analogy.

The flirting comment regarding CN - see if she had nailed him to the cross in that interview he might well have made the same flirting comment. I see it as a joke about the nature of conflict between men and women, and again and it's quite obvious he doesn't know how to handle that. I will have a look at the latest twatter stuff but I do think there is victimising CN in all of this which is a poor show from feminists to be perfectly honest. She has herself said she enjoyed the interview and journalists come unstuck at times - it's part of the job.

It's fairly obvious that JP appears baffled and a little ignorant when dealing with women and whether this is genuine or not I think it's something that throws up a red flag for me.

As far as indoctrinating young men - where and what is his 'doctrine'? I don't see any dangerous ideas being put forward. I have listened to a few lectures through his website (podcasts) and a seen a few interviews with him through respected media outlets though so maybe I have missed some of his more extreme views.

*Yes, tweeting to Jordan Peterson about how much Newman "wants the D!!" is clearly bettering themselves.

Inspirational*

Some eejit on the internet said she wants the D? Oh the absolute horror! Fucksakes I've seen footballers get death threats for missing penalties.

The 'abuse' angle is an attempt at diversion from the skelping she got.

The left can be just as cultish, violent and threatening. Furthermore radicalisation is a very emotive word, but relative to what? Abolishing slavery was a radical notion in its day.

The cardinal sin me for me is we have taken a description of a whole and complete human psyche cut it in half and assigned some things masculine and some other things feminine. Then further compounded the problem by denigrating the feminine.

Piled on top of this we pile a pressure upon women by assigning them an intrinsic value as objects (as both child bearers and sex objects). An object does not have agency thus straining against those constraints we get feminism.

Men on the other hand have no intrinsic value (hence why they are often expendable on the battlefield or in industry), but are thus freed up to have more agency/choice to get on with life on their own terms. Those who fail languish at the bottom.

It's easy to see how either a man or a woman popping their eyes over to the other side of the fence can feel hard done by. Women have by and large yearned for more freedom and agency, whereas a man at the bottom whom has failed may view the intrinsic value women possess as preferable, and end up resenting women for that.

People talk about birth rates declining, and how that is such a terrible shame but given the risks that women have to run each and everytime they do it what I am fearing is a lot of thought shifting towards control of women's fertility and thus women themselves.

Yes, tweeting to Jordan Peterson about how much Newman "wants the D!!" is clearly bettering themselves.

Inspirational!