Is it legal for a man to use the women's toilet in England? Scotland?

I guess what I'm saying is that, trans/self ID issues aside, I'm not particularly enamoured with the idea of people explaining to me why I should be ok with thwm surprising me when I'm in a state of undress/exposed. It's not that dissimilar to the entitlement and lack of regard TRAs display when explaining why they have 'the right' to enter the opposite sex's space.

I'd probably not say anything tbh but I'd be a bit embarrassed if a stranger of the opposite sex walked in when I had my cock out.

The self ID issue is admittedly a bit different and not ultimately driven by 'need' in many cases from what I've seen - although some trans women would undoubtedly not feel safe in the gents so this is a separate and distinct motivation.

However, the presence of urinals means that men have their genitalia on display outside of the privacy of a cubicle. Personally, I'd feel pretty uncomfortable if a woman walked in and inadvertently looked at my dick whilst I was mid piss.

Men are not using the ladies because there is a lack of toilet provision for men. Men can piss up a wall if they so desire; indeed within a minute of parking up in a city centre on Friday night, I saw two of them pissing up a wall.

Exactly this. I don't go in mens' because I feel like it. I have occasionally gone in the mens because it was that or wet myself. If a man is that desperate, they're not going to pick the womens, because there'll already be a massive queue. The only reason is validation. My male partner and children can wee in the garden with nothing more than an eyeroll, but I (in my younger, drunker days) have to find somewhere reasonably sheltered since a little more exposure is required if I want to wee behind a tree!

Males and females use your bathroom at home

Clearly not a mumsnetter, or they'd no that you never let a delivery person/builder use your toilet. It's one of the rules (well except for the people saying 'why the hell not' who've clearly never had a group of 5 tree-surgeons use their downstairs loo and leave it in a state worse than a festival portaloo!)

I don't think anyone should be in the toilet designated for the opposite sex, but if women are going to do it then they can't really moan about men doing it. That's my point

Men are not using the ladies because there is a lack of toilet provision for men. Men can piss up a wall if they so desire; indeed within a minute of parking up in a city centre on Friday night, I saw two of them pissing up a wall.

Women are not using the men's because they are scared of women in women's toilets. If they use them at all it's when there is NO provision available for women.

You don't seem able to understand the basics here.

No, it's the 'practice what you preach' school of argument.

Fascinating really.

This is the 'you wanted equality, ha! So i can punch you in the face now' school of argument i think.

I agree on the ridiculous nature of the self ID argument, but there are also posters on this thread who think they have the right to use the mens. 🤷‍♀️

Women don't often write about men who have to use the ladies in an emergency, because, for instance, they have a three-year-old daughter.

Stop conflating the issues.

Women are complaining about the fact that certain men are now been given to understand that they have the right to come into the female toilets. And disagreement is bigotry.

I don't think anyone should be in the toilet designated for the opposite sex, but if women are going to do it then they can't really moan about men doing it. That's my point.

how can the answer be to introduce men to the female space?

Because they want it, they really really want it.

And if they don't get it, you are being transphobic.

I agree that it's not unreasonable in an emergency. But if women can use the men's when there's inadequate provision for them, then trans people might ask why should they not use the women's until adequate provision is sorted for them where they'll be free of the danger posed by male violence.

If transwomen are subjected to male violence in the gents (and there's nothing to suggest they are), how can the answer be to introduce men to the female space?

No thanks.

I'm sure the last thing that women want to do is use the gents. But in an emergency, what do you suggest? That they wet themselves? Bleed all over their clothes?

I agree that it's not unreasonable in an emergency. But if women can use the men's when there's inadequate provision for them, then trans people might ask why should they not use the women's until adequate provision is sorted for them where they'll be free of the danger posed by male violence.

People often talk about 'teaching men to be more accepting' but that's not a quick fix and certainly of no use to the transwomen who needs to pee when the men's football team has just entered the changing room.

I used to run a very cool London rock bar, back before my uterus chained me to the kitchen sink.

If I were still a licensee in this climate, I would change the toilet door signs for a illustration of genitals, think bus stop cock graffiti and the vulva equivalent.

If you’ve got an outie and you need a pissed up piss, use a urinal.

We separate toilet facilities on the basis of sex, biological, genetic SEX - not gendered feelings or types of outfits.

Sounds like you might be the exact woman to help all these men who just want to pee, Girl...

Give me a urethra masculina and a large extracting implement and I’m willing to do a YTS

urine

Grumble, grumble, grumble... stupid iPad, deleting words when I add a star....

We can extract the

Sounds like you might be the exact woman to help all these men who just want to pee, Girl...

Goody = goady obvs 🤦‍♀️

This thread is why I heart MN posters. ❤️

We are funny. We can extract the urine without rancour and blimey are we sharp.

You know, I never really see our counterparts take a post as goody as our new friends and make something good out of it.

Maybe our special sewing skills of ‘silk purse out of a sows ear’ is what maketh the women.

Crikey, what an entertaining tantrum that was. I can confirm that since giving birth some 20 years ago I have duly stayed at home and not been seen in public. Properly chained to the kitchen sink and all that...

Do you think our visitor would faint if he knew the truth? That out there in the big bad world stay-at-home parents can be found in the wild, frequenting every place he does?

As for the men and women using my bathroom at home - well, yes, people I know. Never at the same time though as there is only one toilet in both of the bathrooms we have. As I live in a household full of men and boys, I have very firmly asserted my boundaries and there is categorically no sharing while I "pee in peace".

I don't think it helps the case that so many women are happy to use the men's 'in an emergency'

I don't think 'happy' is the correct descriptor of this situation.

Def has a pub - I found it by their sneaky use of subliminal advertising by way of “putting this forum on display” = “laminators”. We were sucked in.

Dammit jannit.

ShortCircuit181

I'm sure the last thing that women want to do is use the gents. But in an emergency, what do you suggest? That they wet themselves? Bleed all over their clothes? If men are caught short, their anatomy means they have far more alternatives than women.

There should be no such thing as a woman who needs to use the gents in an emergency. Women's toilet provision should be ample. If it isn't, please don't blame women.

Oi oi you lot

Def has a pub - I found it by their sneaky use of subliminal advertising by way of “putting this forum on display” = “laminators”. We were sucked in.

I don't think it helps the case that so many women are happy to use the men's 'in an emergency', something which the majority of blokes wouldn't dream of doing. There needs to be consistency.