Is it legal for a man to use the women's toilet in England? Scotland?

A trans-person needs to live as the other sex for a minimum of 2 years, right?

Become trans is not a long and stressful process anymore though is it. Thanks to stonewalls enormous trans umbrella definition it includes ppl who have indeed gone though a long and stressful process with surgery & medication to people who simply wear clothing associated with the opposite sex.

Self ID says anyone who defines as the opposite sex must be accepted as that no matter how they present “acceptance without exception”

So a man doesn’t have to do anything but say he identifies as a woman and he’s a woman

See alex Drummond - all Alex does is wear female clothing, no surgery, no hormones, no nothing but Alex is a woman because they say they are

What is your understanding based on Traceyracer?

And although the question wasn't aimed at me, I shall reply anyway:

No, I do not agree with your third paragraph. Because first of all it misrepresents or misunderstands our position - which is categorically not that men actually undergo a transition process in order to predate; second of all it frames the issue from a true trans premise, which is irrelevant to the self-id debate; and lastly it betrays a complete ignorance of the reality of sexual crimes.

Do you agree with my 3rd paragraph?

Traceyracer
My understanding is people are free to use a bathroom of their preference according to whatever they identify as if they are just going about their business and doing their business
If anyone is entering a woman's bathroom with the intention of committing some sort of sexual crime then this of course would be a serious crime which hopefully would be dealt with appropriately
Firstly how can we tell the difference between the two?
Secondly it seems to me you are saying its ok for offences to happen because we can deal with them after the fact. Why shoud women and girls safety privacy and dignity be compromised when the answer is no men in female spaces. Ever. Under any circumstances.

My understanding is people are free to use a bathroom of their preference according to whatever they identify as if they are just going about their business and doing their business.

If anyone is entering a woman's bathroom with the intention of committing some sort of sexual crime then this of course would be a serious crime which hopefully would be dealt with appropriately.

Personally, I like to think men wouldn't go through all the trouble of becoming trans (a long and stressful process) just so they could go perv in a woman's bathroom or changing room. There must be like a hundred or a thousand easier and quicker ways for a man to perv if he wanted to.

No men in women's spaces. That is all. None. No men. No.

Doesn't bloody matter what the man is wearing - eyeliner, short dresses, high heels - doesn't matter at all - crap stereotypes, shit clichés of "womanhood".
If he's a man, then he has no place at all in spaces reserved for women, for reasons of women's safety, privacy, dignity, as has been established, and hard-won, over decades.

Women are denied safety, dignity and privacy when men are facilitated by society to crash women's boundaries, to use women's spaces, despite them knowing that women don't want them there.

The consequences for child safety need very serious consideration, too.

Hi Grace. What does dressing femininely have to do with being female? You imply that you can use female toilets because of your clothes. I don't understand this? Clothes have nothing to do with biology.

Well before any laws are implemented they need changing areas in mens toilets or unisex changing rooms with a loo. Also I have used mens toilets. (individual cubicles) Andd have no issues and wouldn,t with a man. Sounds too much hastle to police.

A coat hanger usually works well to dispel stubborn turds

Males belong in the men's room.

In the old days I'd've asked Grace a few questions too. But I'm a wise horse after spending these few months here and now I know that there's no fucking point.

Pencils!

Apt analogy, there, Pencils.

You have such a wonderful way with words, Pencils

there are however many cases of assault of Transitioning people in public toilets many of these are very serious

In the UK? Given that countless males, including males dressed as women for whatever reason, have been caught committing a variety of sexual crimes in female and mixed-sex toilets and a considerable number have been sentenced for their crimes here in the UK, with each story carried in the local press at the very least, I am somewhat puzzled at the complete lack of similar reports about attacks on males dressed as women in male or mixed-sex toilets here in the UK.

There must be a lot of them for you to make such a strong statement. Or are these anecdotal? No less painful for being personal stories, even if they weren't reported of course. But if anecdotal evidence is what you are basing your statement on, then I'm sure you'll accept our anecdotal evidence, too.

Or are you referring to females who identify as trans being attacked in the gents?

Fucking hell this thread is like a turd that won't flush.

Why are you unsafe in the men's? Is it because you're wearing a frock?
Why do you want to make women's toilets mixed sex if you say men are dangerous?
I am a woman but i don't have a ladybrain, would you consider me to be dangerous in the women's toilets if you saw me there?
If not, how can I discern between a male bodied person in the wrong body, with a ladybrain, and a man with a manly brain?

With the greatest respect G&H if you are mature enough to be a grandparent it is extremely unlikely that you are read as female after two years of whatever you are doing.

Your discomfort at using the correct sex based space doesn’t override my, my daughter’s or any other woman’s consent.

What is your preferred solution? Are you campaigning for third spaces?

Grace why do you feel unsafe using the mens facilities, not all men are violent or aggressive, why do you feel entitled to use facilities that were designed for the safety & privacy of women and girls?

there are however many cases of assault of Transitioning people in public toilets many of these are very serious

Are there really? I've never seen a case of a transwoman assaulted in men's toilets, could you link?

There was that one case of a transwoman "assaulted by cis women" in the women's toilets in a bar, which got a huge amount of publicity. But then the transwoman concerned got arrested for sexually assaulting a woman in a different bar so it seems both the police and the media jumped the gun there.

Now the facts... there are no documented cases so far of inappropriate behaviour by trans women or men in the UK envolving the use of a public convenience

Did you not read about this one?

metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

Hi to all you parents.
I am Trans feminine, I have been presenting as female for over two years. As you can imagine I have researched this subject in detail if only to ensure my own safety both legally and physically
Firstly It is not illegal to use the toilet that a person deams to be appropriate to their gender It is Ileagal to behave in a way that would cause harm or distress to others (this would include taking drugs etc) .
Now personally (and having spoken to other trans male&female) I try where possible to use gender neutral spaces including disabled toilets, I am usually very feminaly dressed wear make up and pass reasonably well as a woman so you can imagine how inappropriate and dangerous it would be to use a male toilet for me,
I have often "to my extreme discomfort" not used toilets due to the environment or if there are children or young adults present, 'why?' Because I don't want to upset anyone and I don't want to experiance hostility in a public place.
I have 3 children and now 3 ' 2-7 years old male & female', grandchildren which I regularly spend time with I am very protective of them so fully understand all your views and concerns.
Now the facts... there are no documented cases so far of inappropriate behaviour by trans women or men in the UK envolving the use of a public convenience , there are however many cases of assault of Transitioning people in public toilets many of these are very serious .
There are approximately 1% of our population who identify as "othere than their bialogical sex at birth" if you think at least half will be anywhere in the Trans spectrum (not identify as female) there would be less than half a percent that's just 300'000 out of a population of over 60 milion that ID as feminine... so the chances are you will live a full life and never see or be aware of a trans feminine person using your pubic toilet.

Finally , genuinely I wish the media and politicians would back away from this somewhat they only propagate and exagirate the situation I do want to just live my life without hostility from other's I do listen to women's veiws and mostly understand and accept those veiws that is why I do try to be sensitive about how I use public facilities.
We "I " am horrified that women feel their hard won rights are being eroded. Please to not think that is what we want.

If you're a Dad with small girls then I can understand why you'd want to take your girls to the women's toilet.

Well, I'm a Dad, and I don't particularly understand it. Unlike @richardmuscat , I would not have gone into the women's toilet with my daughter when she was little - I would have been embarrassed and I would have assumed it would be unwelcome by women.

Men only have "their dicks hanging out" when they have their backs to the room. Unless you're planning on giving your daughter a close-up tour of the urinals, she can go straight to a cubicle with you and be none-the-wiser.

I should probably point out for those who missed it: this is a ZOMBIE THREAD which appears to be regaining life.

The recent attack in London led me to re-watch an old film (Copycat - 1995) in which a criminologist at a conference is attacked in the toilet by a man pretending to be a woman to get her. Which I never spotted at the time. Was far too smitten with Holly Hunter to notice.

It's rather glib in that Hollwood one-liner way, and has more than a dose of post Dirty Harry neaderthal populism with the ending. I'm sure the audience whooped and cheered. There's nothing so alien and unrelatable as the recent past, with its workplace sexism, huge CRTs and all the lights and appliances left permanently on. And I can do with out the Sub-Conan Doylian analysis, but it's still a good and in its better moments an intelligent watch.

And Holly's still lovely.