Wrong side of history

First they ignore you,
then they laugh at you,
then they fight you and then you win.

Why can society have a third category with their own rights movement, experiences and existence that doesn’t impinge on others? Why is that seen as such a bad thing? Why not male, female, trans?

For a long time I supported trans women as being “real” women for want of a better word, but that was because my personal experience of them. Transwomen were women who wanted to exist quietly out of the public eye and not to impinge upon the lives and existence or rights of others. Maybe I only know transwomen who are well aware they’re not natal women but knowing a lot of transwomen from years before transtrenders existed, this seemed to be the general way of thinking.

I also come from a ‘scene’ where gender stereotypes were irrelevant and not once in my thirty years of being involved with that scene or working in it did anyone participating want to encroach on, restrict or deny the rights of others. Males were aware of being male bodied, females were aware of being female bodied and the rest was clothing &make up or lack thereof. (I know that’s simplistic but I’m waffling already)

I feel differently now as these once quiet, supportive and friendly ‘scenes’ have become loud, angry and aggressive. Stereotypes seem to have become definitions and everything seems aimed at eroding the rights of women. It seems no longer acceptable that anything goes but we have to label ourselves and as long as we’re on “the right side” of the labelling hierarchy to hell with whomever that damages.

I don’t understand in times where binary is said not to exist, men and transwomen (x-men?) are fighting to erode the meaning of women and as a result the rights of women... and yet there is no parallel movement towards eroding men’s rights or forcing them to accept the new way. This can’t be right. How can that be the right side of history in a so called equal society?

It may well be that I’m on the wrong side of history and I do hope that trans people find an acceptance in society and a peace within themselves but I hope they do so under the trans umbrella. I hope that they open up a third way that doesn’t erode women’s rights or female experience and especially our existence.

I certainly wouldn’t want to be saying I TOLD YOU SO to either women or trans at the end of this because no good can come from harbouring that kind of anger but if I am forced to side with one group and show my anger then I side with women. If it means I am on the wrong side of history so be it. If it means I am on the losing team, then why change the habit of a lifetime? It won’t stop me fighting for women’s rights and if asked to fight for trans rights that don’t erode the rights of others (as that isn’t equality) then i’ll do that too.

I know it’s muddled up. My brain is muddled up now. It’s a bloody confusing place to be.

I find it telling that people like Lyra see women defending women's rights and reading it as anti-trans, almost like they know that TIM's aren't women - and that the rights they are clamouring for are at the expense of women.

Lyra, you may well be correct. Women may well lose every single right we’ve fought for, but it won’t be those of us who have spent years fighting for women’s rights who will be “on the wrong side of history” then, kitten.

And my hat will now be permanently tipped to Donkey a bloody amazing post.

If it's all in vain and so clear cut that you are in the right why are you so bothered? The lady doth protest too much, methinks

It is very arrogant to assume that you can decide now how history will judge us in the future
The future may be a far right nightmare who we would want to judge us badly
I think there will a shit storm when children grow up sterile and unable to have any sexual feelings
I don't know how anyone could look at Jazz Jennings and see the poor child as a success. The whole thing is superficial. Jazz calls herself a princess. How will she feel when she ages and her looks deteriorate. All her life has been spent on looks. No depth to her dreams

Donkey

But to OP
Cool story Bro. sums it up

Argghh sorry wrong thread!

Wow and TRAs are claiming representation of women in politics is a frivolous waste money that could be better spent elsewhere! Thanks for the info.

@LyraPotter

WE ARE NOT CAMPAIGNING AGAINST TRANS RIGHTS .

WE ARE CAMPAIGNING FOR WOMEN’S RIGHTS .

rights to privacy , safety , and the right to determine who inhabits our naked space , who we associate with , who nurses us in our vulnerability .
Who
When
Where
If
Ever

If you object to any of that , then you’re a - putting it nicely - deeply shabby human being .

END
OF
STORY

Oh dear, is a transactivist upset

The false bravado is quite apparent isn't it

Oh dear, is a transactivist upset?

A standing ovation Donkey, if you please, ladies!

Lyra, I think you just got served kiddo.

I don't know why people are agreeing about the wrong side of history. Stories coming out everyday like the girl with a fear of men (irrational or not) ending up in a psychiatric ward with a burly man. Guy with a beard turning up for another girls intimate operation when she had specified a female nurse. Rapists in women's prison etc etc..

Everyday more and more people are clicking on to this absurdity. Keep sharing online. Keep speaking to friends and family.

Unfortunately the ultimate peak trans will probably come when folk are suing due to being pumped full of drugs as children then mutilated as adults. How many lives will be wrecked by then though?

I can identify as a bird all I like but we all know what would happen if I chucked myself off my roof. I would soon find out I wasn't a bird. They would be scrapping my body off my yard.

Keep on trucking with your eye on the prize

I love "wrong side of history". Like "transwomen are women" it makes me think of sheep bleating "four legs bad, two legs good".

Whatever you do, you mustn't think critically! You'll do yourself a mischief!

Being on “the right side of history” doesn’t reflect any moral superiority - in fact quite often it means the opposite.

Lyra Could you please tell me exactly:

a) What Trans Rights you are fighting for?
b) What equality and with whom are you seeking it?
c) What rights do Trans people not already have?

Donkey

Donkey 🙌

donkey 👏 👏 👏

donkey, what a post! 🌟🌟🌟

A clap for @DonkeySkin

Oh and might I suggest you'd be better placed erm donating to food banks, volunteering and erm other charitable pursuits as has been suggested to us rather than narking at us on MN in that new facet of your ideology #multitaskingisamyth #can'tsupportmorethanonecause.

I don't actually disagree with a lot of what you say here, Lyra.

Women have always been on the wrong side of history. Within the span of human civilisations across the world, the window of time when women have had any substantial rights or autonomy is very, very small. For most of recorded history, women have been suppressed rather than respected by the law.

I agree that our extinguishment as a legally definable category of persons is very likely, and therefore that our right to organise and assemble without men, to define ourselves without reference to them, to have resources and spaces to ourselves, to even speak about our lives and bodies, could easily be wiped out. In 1989, 40 per cent of doctors in Afghanistan were women. By 1999, women in that country were not even permitted to access medical treatment, let alone work as doctors, and the Taliban were passing laws that forbad them from making noise with their feet while they walked. That's how quickly things can change for women. (And here's the thing: none of them could escape this by 'identifying' as something else.)

Yes, women's rights could easily be extinguished in the UK and other Western countries - they remain fragile and contingent, as they have been everywhere throughout human history.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/transgender-rights-the-elimination-of-the-human-rights-of-women/