“Transwomen are women”

Is the male/female brain like all those online quiz things?

I come up as 90%+ male on all of them. My interests are male, I'm good at traditionally male activities and tasks (map reading, building Ikea furniture, maths), I don't conform to female appearance (makeup, high heels, dresses).

That doesn't make me trans. It makes me a traditionally "masculine" woman. But still a woman.

Agree with BlindYeo "Brain biology is such a red herring, I don't care if there is some difference in their brain that makes them think they're a woman. If I am competing against a TIM in sport their lady brain is of no relevance to me. It's their superior size and strength that makes things unfair. Having a pink brain, even if there were such a thing, doesn't suddenly make pregnancy, abortion, breastfeeding, menstruation or endometriosis an issue for them. So they still don't merit the same biological category as me."

The brains thing is a massive red herring. I am female, and was a girl and am now a woman. Based on when I was born people spotting a vulva and saying "it's a girl", then socialising me as such (clothes, treatment) and then at puberty I grew breasts and got periods and then it was time for an additional layer of socialisation of my place as a member of the sex class.

It is all about biology and how people treat you, for me the way men treated me after puberty affected me particularly strongly.

This brain stuff is what? what even is it. Sex has been about biology and gender role. The sex is observed and the gender role is enforced. That is it.

What even would this pink brain stuff mean? Is it flowers and kittens? Deference? Personality of a laydee? A desire to be sexually dominated? Liking of the trappings of femininity? Many people feel that their bodies are wrong, it doesn't mean that they literally ARE.

Massive massive red herring.

"nobody knows what their own chromosomes are".

... apart from anyone who has had their chromosomes tested by a genetics labororatory.

... and, much more significantly, apart from the hundreds of millions of female people who have gone through pregnancy and childbirth, which are biological processes that tell these women that they can be 99.99999 percent certain that their chromosomes are XX. They can know this without any genetic testing, even in the most remote human settlements hundreds of miles from the nearest biologist or doctor.

I read Bertrand's OP as a challenge to those who believe in gender to argue their case.
And of course no one ever offers an argument, because there isn't one.
The options for gender activists to address sex seem to be:

1. "ERADICATE IT"

1. "FAKE IT"

People who aren't terribly logical or good at critical thinking stick to the circular argument position.

People who recognise logical fallacy go with pseudoscience to argue other stuff is more important than sex.

It's ignore, or lie. Or some combination of both.

What you'll never get, is objective reality and reasoned argument. There will never be a silk purse from this sow's ear.

Brain biology is such a red herring, I don't care if there is some difference in their brain that makes them think they're a woman. If I am competing against a TIM in sport their lady brain is of no relevance to me. It's their superior size and strength that makes things unfair. Having a pink brain, even if there were such a thing, doesn't suddenly make pregnancy, abortion, breastfeeding, menstruation or endometriosis an issue for them. So they still don't merit the same biological category as me.

There isn't any logic to this Bernard. TRAs are bullying males wanting no less than to make everyone agree 2+2=5. Just like in 1984.

Your chromosomes prove your sex, not your DNA. There are chromosomal disorders pertaining to sex such as haemophilia

www.nhs.uk/conditions/haemophilia/

DNA is cross sex with many human conditions whether it be male or female.

How can a 'feeling' be scientifically defined though?

Your problems regarding this are, quite frankly, your problems. If you think that 'surely there has to be more to it than that!' is your problem.

It's stereotyping but it's also a socialised construct.

Are the following socialised constructs?

Oxygen.
Water.
Food.
Shelter.
Sleep.

Some will argue that they are.

I know what you mean.
The truth is your are either born male or female.
You then get to choose...
Male. identify as male.
Transexual identify as female in a male body. pre or post.
Transexual identify as male in a female body. pre or post.
Woman identify as female..

Sorry but unless your were born female, your not a woman,

Your DNA proves this...

Bertrand, one of the really confusing things about all this is the difference between transsexual and transgender. Transsexuals have an agonising sense of being in the wrong body. They need surgery to feel better. Transgenders might not suffer such crippling dysphoria but have a powerful urge to be treated as members of the opposite sex. There's a lot of tension between the two groups, and transsexuals end up being called 'truscum' and 'transmedicalists'. The other side get called 'transtrenders'.

A person who is born a man cannot become a woman. People aren't seahorses. Not yet anyway. Maybe some future science may enable it. But certainly not now,

No one on this planet can scientifically define 'being born in the wrong body'. It's an impossibility. It's like scientifically trying to define that God exists.

Neither would never pass a meta analytical study.

It can only be that the liberal feminists who're so angrily supporting transwomen on women-only lists aren't thinking too deeply about what it actually means. Trans ideology rests on the idea of fixed male and female brain types. TRAs would answer the thread question by saying 'transwomen are women because they have female brains'. That's obviously quite reactionary from a feminist perspective.

Saying transwomen are women is a bit like saying

There is no poverty and no wealth
There is no racial discrimination, we are all humans
Sexism doesn't exist; in an equal society we all have choices
Violence and warfare is a human activity and is part of being human
Religious discrimination doesn't exist

Basically, it's anarchy.

this is the first time I have felt as if I was an exclusionist rather than an inclusionist

Yes me too, it’s an uncomfortable feeling. I also think that a lot of the people who proclaiming we’re bigots don’t really follow it all themselves - but they know what the acceptable conclusion is so they proclaim that as loudly as possible to make it clear they’re in the right camp.

I was in that position myself for a while (although I never thought trans women were literally women). There was a real sense of “well okay I can’t explain how this works, but I’m sure someone somewhere can, so why let my limited understanding hold up what I’m told is a civil rights movement fighting bigots?”

Those are my italics and my bold.

Darwin was not only racist but also sexist.

www.icr.org/article/darwins-teaching-womens-inferiority/

Women's inferiority—a fact taken for granted by most scientists in the 1800s—was a major proof of evolution by natural selection. Gould claims that there were actually "few egalitarian scientists" at this time. Almost all believed that "Negroes and women" were intellectually inferior. These scientists were not repeating prejudices without extensive work and thought; they were attempting to verify this major plank in evolutionary theory by trying to prove, scientifically, that women were inferior.

I’m going to repost this:

www.recordnet.com/article/20150617/NEWS/150619683 I’ve just read about this guy and the massive pissed offness that he caused.

I quote The media continues to promote hate and racial stereotypes and there’s a continuation of the idea that there is such a thing as race, he said. But there is no scientific basis for it.

Read it and substitute race for gender, black for female.
The black community wouldn’t stand for it yet us women are expected to role over.

LOL at all the excemptions that gren dude makes in his own thread about how trans women are real women

mobile.twitter.com/greenrd/status/952234757097705483

Seems to mean 'except' in all situations transactivists are wailing about

Then when he realises he is making exceptions for pretty much every situation, he starts saying lesbians can rape too. Hmm.

It is bias and bad methodology. If you are a surgeon who specialises in gender reassignment then of course you are going to conduct a 'scientific analysis' to support your speciality. It makes economic sense.

Why all the guffing on about brains?

Were you born with a dick? Male
Were you born with a fanny? Female

When I posted that I didn't see that Barracker had already mentioned Cordelia Fine!