“Transwomen are women”

Off topic, but opening jars depends more on jar lid size and hand size than brute force. DH can open big jars for me. I have tiny hands. He has big hands, so I can open small jars for him that he can't budge. All to do with grip size, physics or summat.......

But I digress...

What has really upset me about this thread is that there is even a discussion going on about the feasibility or otherwise of changing the definition of women legally. FFS that way lies madness. Can you imagine a similar discussion going on among men where they decide whether they can legally change the definition of man? It would be "fuck off sunshine".

I cling on to the hope to quote a famous saying (Lincoln?) "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time."

But the point was not all men are stronger than all women.
Very little oppression is based on physical strength now, it doesn't need to be.

It's not controversial that men are stronger than women.

It's the entire basis for their means of oppression.

If we were stronger than them, they wouldn't be able to do it.

Really? It anyone could show a difference between male and female brains wouldn’t we be nearly there?
As I understand it you can see differences in how brains respond to stimuli by live imaging techniques. Female brains ‘light up’ in characteristic ways for example in terms of empathy and risk aversion. Interestingly, these responses can be modified by testosterone injections, for example in Female to male transition. I understand that these changes are more profound the earlier in life the hormones are taken

I've already corrected myself, but kudos for pointing out one more time my rhetoric which generalised too much for your taste.

Even the weakest men (say, those somewhere near the bottom third of the untrained men bellcurve) can out grip the strongest women (say, those in the top third of the trained women bellcurve).

I didn't use singular. You can see the point still stands.

But I'll leave it there as I'm not sure niggling over the fact that almost every man can out grip almost every woman helps the thread. It's just something I remember in a situation where I might get grabbed by a man. That the odds are overwhelming that he will overpower me no matter who he is.

If you pick a pawpaw from a prickly jar...

Maybe my next name change should be PricklyJar.

Pickle not prickly!

I can get the kid of any prickly jar using force or guile.

I remember getting into an argument with a trans-ally on here and being struck by her position vis a vis physical vs. mental differences. Her view really seemed to be "admit to physical differences" = "whole edifice of feminism come crumbling down" while simultaneously "lady brains" = "cool explanation of transgender, like totes compatible with feminism". I just couldn't get my head round the cognitive dissonance involved in holding that position.

Thw quoted post at question was Even the weakest men can out grip the strongest women

And it's been corrected. The top strongest women can only outgrip the bottom quarter of men.

Slightly weird thing to quibble over if I'm honest.

Goebbels - Trump -

Those figures are quite scary, but if you think about it very obvious Barracker. I would consider myself to be pretty strong. I grew up with brothers and all their friends and had to stand up for myself. I remember as a child competing in arm-wrestling, but by the age of 14 every single one of them had overtaken me. I have never been beaten by a woman/girl (we didn't have smartphones and were very bored as children ), but yet even the youngest/smallest/weediest of my brothers, friends could beat me long before they were physically mature.

I didn't say any man is stronger than any woman did I? If I did I shouldn't have. I was recalling from memory at first. Let me check

Thw quoted post at question was Even the weakest men can out grip the strongest women

""Those who can make youbelieve absurditiescan make youcommit atrocities."
Voltaire

I’m not going to say it... you’re already thinking it...

Actually the quote is from Goebbels! But it is very true.

Ahhhh, the Donald trump defense.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”

I didn't say any man is stronger than any woman did I? If I did I shouldn't have. I was recalling from memory at first. Let me check...

OK, I said "95% of all men have a hand grip strength greater than any woman"
Which was incorrect, I remembered incorrectly.

I should have said "95% of all men have a hand grip strength greater than 90% all women".

In other words, when it comes to hand grip, unless you're in the top 10% of women, you will find you are out-gripped by almost every man alive, weedy or otherwise (95% of men will beat you)
The top 10% of uberstrong women will beat some men, yes. But their uberstrength still only corresponds to only the 25th percentile of the men.

Even the strongest woman can't out grip an average man. At the highest level of strength attainment, women rarely surpass the 50th percentile of untrainedmen.

Jess is trying to be reasonable. She doesn't realise how fully batshit and dogmatic much of the trans movement is. But there will be no dodging. They already hate her because she's not a Corbyn fan.

Maryz

Once someone has repeated the 'trans women are women' mantra, they are then pretty much locked into defending all the absurd extremes of trans ideology - the biology denial, the end of sex-segragated spaces and women's sports, the traducing of crime and medical stats. The person who has uttered the phrase in the spirit of being 'inclusive' (or under duress ) then feels obliged to defend their position to its logical (or rather, illogical) conclusion.

No wonder they pressure people so hard to say it.

Just read the Jess Phillips twitter thread. She's being hammered with the usual overblown 'denying transwomen the right to exist' (ffs grow up) and to declare that biological women daring to fund raise to seek a legal challenge is transphobic hatred. I hope JP doesn't fold.

These people are insane.

Poor Jess. Even if she says it they will never forgive her for hesitating.

Except that would exclude a whole bunch of natal women.

Yes. I guess I'm assuming here in Trans Dystopia that 'man' would be concurrently redefined to mean 'person who conforms to current culturally accepted standards of masculine presentation', which then takes in a lot of non-conforming women, and who knows, maybe there'd be 70 'non-binary' categories for all the stragglers in between.

You'd to have to have, 'conforms to cultural stereotypes and/or is an adult human female'. But, then again, transactivists say they are perfectly entitled to walk around conforming to male stereotypes and still be considered a woman.

Yep. You couldn't go with this one because it's still separating women from TIMs by saying that women get to be included in the category regardless of how we present, but TIMs have to conform to feminine presentation. Which excludes all the so-called 'butch transwomen' (i.e., masculine presenting men).