“Transwomen are women”

See, I don't agree that trans-identified males are performing the feminine gender role, which is why I never refer to them as 'gender non-conforming'. Most are very obviously enacting a male fantasy of what womanhood is, which is all about clothes, make-up and sexual objectification. They have zero interest in appropriating the non-sexualised aspects of the feminine gender role: child care, elder care, domestic shit work, subordinating one's own needs and desires to those of others.

100% agree with you

Cross posts sorry

If any of the research categorically showed that there are birth differences between male and female brains where the results aren't merely a product of socialization and social construction then why is a brain scan not part of the diagnosis.

And why would results not be documented in a way which broadens the bandwidth of being male.

And why would the likes of that Alex and Danielle Muscato be happy with making very little effort to transition besides clothing.

We all need to get over the romanticized idea of struggling people binding breasts and attempting suicide unable to look at their penis and realise that people now are openly taking the piss right in front of our eyes confident in the brainwashing and recruitment of their allies.

Most of which are young and naive and probably have have no idea what it really means.

If people were so sure of it all then research into detransitioners wouldn't have been actively shut down.

It is so scary how people are so accepting of what people they don't even know are telling them that they can't even even see that if there was such overwhelming evidence they woukd have facts and logic and statistics to back it up and would not be frightened of such a debate .

Instead women are no platformed

I cannot believe how far it has gone already. And im sacred as to what has to happen before people take women And stop and think.. .

We would all fail an exam in school if we reported facts so so wrong and couldn't back up our theories.

It's not good enough for kids then writing laws for adult populations to live by is absolute insanity

This research for instance: www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/. Interestingly, from the tiny number of people surveyed it shows stronger proof for TIFs than TIMs. 'The female-to-male transsexual people had white matter in these regions that resembled a male brain [...] in each [transwoman's] brain the structure of the white matter in the four regions was halfway between that of the males and females'. But we also know that brain development is flexible and shaped by experience, and that there is also such a thing as 'gay and straight brains'.

The words in that quote that disturb me the most is at a surface level

So being a woman, is all about presentation and looks?

That Robin Green tweet is fascinating: 'I see them as real women except for relationship purposes'.

Is that an 'allowed' position for trans-allies to have, or was he crucified for that?

'hormonal sweet spots'? Jaysus.

Good, point Donkey. Maybe it would be easier to hammer this out properly if TRAs would engage fully. There might even be a way to find a peaceful coexistence.

It should be obvious to anyone that allowing biologically male people (remember that biology is more than genitals) to take up spaces for women. Spaces in sport, politics, STEM sectors etc, where women are historically disadvantaged and under represented, should be fairly obviously not the right thing to do. Women already compete, and still lose out, to men. Why should we make that competition more inequitable by adding the extra challenge of competing against women who used to be men?

And I get that most trans women live generally quite lives in their new identity asa woman. And they take on most of the roles of a woman. I I don’t begrudge them that. They deserve to live in freedom and safety, unharassed and not discriminated against.

I bet that most of them would confess that they haven’t the first clue about the biological difficulties of being a woman even though they are sympathetic.

And also the reason why trans women can never represent women’s issues in the same way that biological women can. The same as I would not be an acceptable representative for BME communities, or Muslim communities. I am sympathetic to issues suffered in those communities but I have no first hand experience.

I'm posting this link as I think it's important to the current discussion.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42652947

This quote makes no sense.

^Dr Liadh Timmins, who specialises in sexual orientation and gender identity at King's College London, describes the comments as "transphobic".

"Sexual attraction is a response to stimuli - that can be based on any number of things for example waist to hip ratio, certain behaviours, or breast size," Dr Timmins says.

"If you have a trans woman who transitions very early on, she may be physically identical to a cis woman at a surface level."^

There is some research out there that seems to show transwomen have some more typically 'female' brain architecture, but not being a scientist/medic I don't know how legit it is.

Is there? I've been asking for weeks for some research into this so I'm glad it is finally here. Can you post the link?

snap!

twitter.com/greenrd/status/951948874331099137

I will try to link, hope this works.

mobile.twitter.com/greenrd/status/951948874331099137

There is some research out there that seems to show transwomen have some more typically 'female' brain architecture, but not being a scientist/medic I don't know how legit it is.

Stichglitched could you link please (I tried to find it but totally failed).

That said. I have every sympathy with people who want to perform a gender role differently to that of their sex.

See, I don't agree that trans-identified males are performing the feminine gender role, which is why I never refer to them as 'gender non-conforming'. Most are very obviously enacting a male fantasy of what womanhood is, which is all about clothes, make-up and sexual objectification. They have zero interest in appropriating the non-sexualised aspects of the feminine gender role: child care, elder care, domestic shit work, subordinating one's own needs and desires to those of others.

I think the people who are usually reasoned and considered in their views do not believe transwomen are the same as natal women. However, I think that they believe they have every right to be classified as women and this is what underpins their conviction in the statement.
I don’t think they are at all bothered by defining women but rather, so long as the category ‘women’ exists, transwomen should be included in it.

Oh my, just read the whole conversation under Robin Green's tweet. He is absolutely destroyed!

But, and this is an incontrovertible truth, you cannot change your sex to become the opposite sex. You cannot rewrite the genetic code that lives in every cell of your body, in the shape of your bones and the layout of your muscle mass etc

And when you point that out, you get 'it's more than being a woman' and when you ask them to define what it is about being a woman that they identify with they tell you it will get into an 'existential' argument and 280 characters are not enough.

It is utterly baffling.

I don’t see that there are any ways to explain that tautology unless you reduce being a woman to a set of lazy gender stereotypes and ‘feelz’.

That said. I have every sympathy with people who want to perform a gender role differently to that of their sex. People should be able to perform gender in any way they like. We, as a society, should be exploring how to broaden gender roles. How to get rid of endemic, institutionalised sexism.

But, and this is an incontrovertible truth, you cannot change your sex to become the opposite sex. You cannot rewrite the genetic code that lives in every cell of your body, in the shape of your bones and the layout of your muscle mass etc.

These are things that separate makes from females. Surely these are the things that also make someone intersex too. So how does pretending that they aren’t important and don’t exist help anyone but the disphoric? How can we safely deny our biology?

Every like and retweet by a man, ask if they will have a sexual relationship with a trans woman.

You could have fun outing the men that won't sleep with trans women and let them and TRAs fight.

Brilliant quotes. And probably a far more effective way to get the message across rather than focusing on any erosion of women’s rights - focus on the erosion of a man’s right not to sleep with a trans woman without being a transphobe.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fu3j8SAL3g

India on CBB discussion with u

Cross-posted with Elendon.

Transgender people are saying "Transwomen are women".

Straight men are saying ""Transwomen are women except for when it affects me".