ITV Transformation Street

Dear Rufusetherenegaderaindeer, I suppose you could call me a carer still as I do look after many elderly folk of both sexes but he is the only one I shower , the others are housework or shopping and hospital runs

Well i hope so otherwise you are giving random 80 year olds a bath!!!!

Youre a carer then harv

I give one of my clients a weekly shower and he allows me to scrub his back, legs, arms chest feet then he turns round with a grin and stands there like a chimp with his hands in the air and his legs wide apart .....
Then he looks crestfallen when I tell him that’s his department, mind you he is 86 years of age.

Which is weird cos you saying a 'battery of appendages' made me snigger

Good one Refusetherenegadereindeer that made me laugh,😁

I never used men’s loos I didn’t like my own appendage and the thought of seeing a battery of them boggles the mind 😁

Thats the basic definition of toilet humour there harv

Wow that stirred the potty a bit hehe

I have never seen that water

I only frequent the best bogs of course

Seen drops of wee on seats, dunno why people dont wipe those

You don’t need to tell us that about ladies’ loos harv! ‘Sugar and spice and all things nice’ is of course another gender myth!

I really hate it when people leave piss on the seat. And many times I’ve seen streaks of blood on the floor/wall which I assume to be menstrual. Have also seen used tampons on the floor in swimming pool changing rooms 🤢😩 Humans are rank!

Boys loos are worse

Just the smell

I think its the lack of flush...thats what dh tells me anyway

I will tell you something about ladies loos

Some of them are really grotty, as in yuk.
The worst one in my town is the M&S in store totally awful, 🚽😷

Off to church ❤️

@48harv "Dear Italiangreyhound, you say you want self contained loos for the safety angle and I agree, but is this not the surrender of more if your rights, you should be able to walk around naked in a woman only space without fear (if that’s what you want to do if course)."

I didn't say for safety. I rarely feel unsafe in the loos. But I know some people who do. I think just for comfort I'd rather know that I was in a self-contained room rather than a stall, with others waiting outside, inches/centimeters away! Maybe I am just a very private person.

I never feel the need to walk around naked. Not even at home. Nakedness to me is somewhat overrated!

"Or shower in a woman’s cubicle without fear and wear whatever you want without fear. This should not be a gift from men it is a basic human right." I totally agree but for me being able to use communal loos isn't part of it for me.

I guess this is just one issue.

Dear Italiangreyhound on you observations on trans dress code, I agree wholeheartedly with your observations, when I was younger (a lot younger) women wore dresses and skirts so I did to, but today as I said before I wear mostly uni sex for functionality. In fact my Sister visited after a long absence and commented on that very fact, and asked me why I was not in skirts more often, she was the first person I ever told if my inner me.

Did anyone watch the mini series “the Ascent of woman” by Dr Amanda Foreman on BBC2.
In Anotolia in central Turkey
A site named catalhoyuk in Turkey is one of the earliest known sites in human evolution from around 7.5 1000 year BC it was discovered that early inhabitants were gender neutral.
In the following millennia roles began to change with the introduction of farming and domestic work.
Sumer in what is now Iraq began to alter the status of women into the 2nd gender as it is recognised today by 2300BC when the Assyrian tyrant Tzargon the great invaded Sumer and made it a vassal State , after that it was all down hill for the rights of women.

Sorry about the history lesson 😁

Dear Italiangreyhound, you say you want self contained loos for the safety angle and I agree, but is this not the surrender of more if your rights, you should be able to walk around naked in a woman only space without fear (if that’s what you want to do if course). Or shower in a woman’s cubicle without fear and wear whatever you want without fear.
This should not be a gift from men it is a basic human right.

Dear LangCleg,
Hi to you to, 😁
yes you have the general measure of me correct but I would like to help, Your points about having nothing to do with feminism are true, by being not a true women negates my position in the world of women, but I have an awful lot to offer.
I do get the door opened for me, and the offer of seat on the bus (at times😊). Maybe because I am now wrinkly hehe.
I don’t think I ever took to the role of a man (or boy) as to where I was in the world ,I always felt excluded, almost like they knew I was an outsider, and as I couldn’t openly declare my inner self I was not part of the women’s world either, for years it didn’t bother me it was only when I became more vocal about world events, that I detested the gulf between the male and female genders, I was. Late bloomer I guess.

I want safe self contained single loos. Probably just not enough to campaign. Was just one aspect.

@LangCleg I'm theory I completely agree.

In practice I am not sure how that works.

"Should we be fighting for individual self contained loos and changing etc rather than trying to control who uses communal ones?"

Only if women want them. And I don't think they do. The only time I've come across women wanting self contained Loo's is in preference to unisex Loo's.

If the trans community want something, they have proved that they are more than capable of achieving it.

An interesting example of women being erased in the past. www.historytoday.com/patricia-lundy/sacred-songs-dead

Should we be fighting for individual self contained loos and changing etc rather than trying to control who uses communal ones?

No. We should be fighting for the ability of women to a) define themselves, b) organise among themselves, and c) fight for their rights, without reference to men.

Even the tiny, tiny, number of men who have catastrophic dysphoria, like Harv. I have no problem with Harv whatsoever - hi Harv, you seem like a nice person and I'm glad transition eased your suffering! - but Harv has nothing whatsoever to do with feminism or women's rights.

I happily concede that post-op transsexuals have, in practice, vacated the category of men and, in some psychosocial respects, are better included in the category of women, on an individual and consensual basis. But this vulnerable population of people like Harv is tinier than tiny. And this population has nothing to do with feminism or women organising to protect and defend and further their rights.

@48harv
@Rufustherenegadereindeer1
@QuentinSummers

Patriarchy thing of the past "Chilling but true i reckon" I do kind of agree, unless we change things by force! Which I reckon most women do not want to do.

BUT I think/hope that as patriarchy is not 100% good for men, so increasingly men may realize this and work for a more equitable and better society with women.

Will we women who want this one day need to work around the whole trans agenda to bring about the end of patriarchy? How would that work?

I feel the whole trans thing has been hugely de-railing for feminism, while acknowledging this may be necessarily so. Does that make sense?

Should we be fighting for individual self contained loos and changing etc rather than trying to control who uses communal ones?

If males dressing like 'traditional' females (can't remember last time I saw many women in a skirt or a dress except at a formal event or on a very hot summer's day - when did we last have one!) and more women wear trousers and boots and tops than anything else, well if that happens would trans women actually still want the same clothes as traditional females or the new androgynous look? Would trans men want flowery shirts to look like real men. Could this mix up in a food mixer eventually really change how we see ourselves and others?

It will not affect people with genuine body dysforia, but for those who are males and like lacy things if all males likes lacy things would those males feel they were typical - again this is not about body dysforia.

Just an idea.