ITV Transformation Street

It was common to call the middle aged testosterone drop men experience "male menopause". Your decision to claim the menopause and leave the male behind was your own, 48harv.

I will also make those things my hill to die on.

Nothing to add to that. Well said.

Women are not going to pretend that female specific biology doesn't exist to avoid hurting trans women's feelings. That, the transitioning of children, and dicks in single sex spaces where nudity can be expected are the hills that I will die on, and I'm not alone in that.

I’m sorry my explanation of what menopause is has fallen on deaf ears. I have also always had to battle my corner, as many other women with gynae and hormonal difficulties have had, so attempting to guilt me about your suffering won’t work either.

You and I have had different experiences. That’s all there is to it.

Nope.

People who disagree with you are not "deaf".

I am sorry the apology for upsetting you has fallen on deaf ears, those that know me know I am a sincere person and accept that if I say I am sorry then I mean what I say.i have always had to defend my corner and will always do so, I would never belittle womanhood nor try to subvert the gender of women because I respect all women.my G.P gave me that statement about my symptoms in1991 possibly he was using the term incorrectly in explaining to me what my symptom mirrored but all I have told you is as it was said to me.and I never say anything “Weasley”

I mean, look, this is why even many women who started out from a position of wanting to achieve some sort of compromise with trans women have ended up realizing that no compromise is really possible, because even the "nice" trans women who don't send rape or death threats are absolutely determined to erase and public differentiation between our experiences and theirs. If we can't talk about the experiences of female humans as a group, if the language we need to do so has been compromised, then there's no way to fight for more rights for women and girls, or even hold the line in terms of the rights we have now. I know that for many trans women this is basically a coping mechanism, but when you decide that your coping mechanism is more important than women's ability to name and discuss our experiences then that's a deeply selfish decision and makes it impossible for us ever to achieve any sort of compromise that works for both parties.

Trans women are different from women and have different life experiences and different needs. There's no road forward without acknowledging that basic fact.

Thank you! I was having one of those “am I the only person seeing this?” moments.

And yeah, weasely non-apology not accepted.

Words mean things. "Menopause" specifically refers to the cessation of menstruation. It does not mean "hormonal disturbances a male person has in middle age", regardless of what artificial hormones that male person may or may not be taking.

If you want to be an ally to women, or even a friend, you need to stop trying to erase the differences between you and us.

"You had neither menarche nor menstruation. You did not have menopause."

Yes, This.

You had neither menarche nor menstruation. You did not have menopause.

The fact that you think six months of suffering whatever you suffered with is what menopause feels like only illustrates that we are not talking about the same thing.

Menopause lasts for a number of years.

Your experience is yours. It is not a female experience. You may not colonise this.

“if you are offended then I am sorry” - the classic non apology. At any rate, I don’t accept it, dear 48.

The "male menopause" (sometimes called the "andropause") is an unhelpful term sometimes used in the media to explain the above symptoms.

Dear Sophocles I have no desire to offend you but
Men do suffer a type of menopause it’s clasified as ANDROGEN a tetesterone deficiency older men suffer, now multiply that deficiency with a huge increase in oestrogen (hrt) and the symptoms mirror the female menopause which in my case lasted for 6 months, this is all true , not a silly fantasy by a trans woman, and if you are offended then I am sorry.

My responses are brief as my phone is on the fritz. But as a women who suffered for years with gynae problems, including early menopause, I simply will not stand for the experience being appropriated willy nilly like this. It’s not Ok.

Men don’t go through menopause.

The symptoms of menopause are caused by low oestrogen. Estradiol is used to treat menopause by replacing the missing oestrogen. You couldn’t suffer the symptoms of menopause by taking too much oestrogen.

Trans women don’t go through menopause.

Thank you dear McTufty, as I said I rarely disclose my past but it’s been good to air it to you all, thanks for your responses. It’s refreshing to see that time has advanced the tolerance for people like me.

There are also new theories that even men suffer a type of menopause not the same as women of course,

Dear Sophocles .... it was diagnosed by a qualified doctor to be the symptoms of the menopause because I was by then on a very high dose of the female hormone estradiol And had been for 3 months, I am only stating what was said to me.

@48harv thank you for coming here and engaging constructively, I believe the debate needs more of this

you may be surprised but I suffered a very heavy dose of the menopause

You say you enjoy the honesty here, so here it comes.

Please don't do this. Whatever hormonal upsets may have happened to you, they were not the menopause. That is a condition that specifically affects women. It is harmful to women for you to appropriate female experience like this. Your own experience is different. Own your own stuff, and let us own ours.