Serena Williams - ignored by Doctors

So upsetting to read these stories. And so common. Women just aren't listened to

Let's not forget that, when giving birth, most of those ignoring labouring women are midwives and nurses i.e. more often than not other women. Why? There are lots of threads about this on MN, for some masochistic reason I seem to read them all and I still don't understand where that callousness comes from.

It's the same with police officers on threads. They always say the police are always right and anyone who complains about their treatment should not be listened to.

While we have these attitudes in our support / public services / institutions, we will continue having all the problems that we have.

I get that these are difficult and thankless jobs, but instantly dismissing criticism and closing ranks when things go wrong is not right whichever way you look at it.

This is exactly the problem, Lucked's post.

A woman - an articulate, intelligent woman, has said that she was not listened to in hospital.

A medical person has come forward and said, I do not believe / trust her testimony. I believe the doctors were right, and her statement that she was not listened to is not credible. Even though I was not there, and I do not know the people involved, or anything, I choose to find the woman's statement not relevant, and support that the doctors will have definitely done the right thing.

Yes this right here. Problem.

Lucked I think you missed this part of the article:
"When she tried to inform the medical staff at the hospital of her fears, she was, like so many other women, not taken seriously. After insisting, doctors performed an ultrasound scan on her legs. "

My DH was shit and not surprising, he hates hospitals and was really lost as to what to do.

Our care shouldn't depend on having a man who is prepared and able to advocate for us. Not all men are good at that. The couple on the news -they were doctors, they trusted the medics, and look what happened.

They should listen to women. Isn't this the complaint about everything? Medical malpractice / lack of care, sexual assault, lots of stuff, we're not listened to, our testimony is not considered credible or worth anything.

You see it with trials for sex offences. If a man is mugged / robbed, and he gives evidence, this is seen as that, he is giving evidence of what happened, he is a witness. With sex offences, the woman is not seen as a witness, people often say "well it's hard because there are no witnesses". The woman is not considered a reliable witness to the crime.

Sorry off topic but the whole thing is linked.

Actually I am going to say the doctors did the correct tests in the correct order and we're following protocol. The breast of a women who has just given birth are more susceptible to radiation and because of this the radiation of a CT test has a slightly increased risk.

Given her history of thrombus a positive ultrasound and her symptoms would have been enough to confirm the diagnosis and commence treatment. The clot will have come from her legs So it is not an unreasonable test.

Every hospital I have worked in has had ultrasound as the first line test for pregnant and post partum women followed by CT as a second line test as long as this does not introduce significant delay

Thing is women are generally quite stoic aren't we? So if a woman says, this is wrong, I'm in a lot of pain, just fucking listen to her.

The pain I felt was just a terrible wrong-ness

YES. And they just think you're making a fuss. Christ, I know what pain is, I know where I'm hurting, and how extreme it is - but up on the ward, they were like bad waiters - knowing that I was basically unable to think or move far due to pain and exhaustion - I was just on the ball against the bed, concentrating on surviving, and they avoided me. Thank god for DP, who, whilst bumbling in day to day life, is fantastic in an emergency, and trusts me over doctors.

Women lie, women exaggerate, women are weak - these lies society tells about us harm us so much.

Not listening to women and their concerns regarding their health, especially when it comes to childbirth, does have horrific consequences. And often their partners, if they have them, feel this experience too and also feel helpless. It is a game changer in many ways.

So upsetting to read these stories. And so common. Women just aren't listened to.

I saw them on C4 news the other day.

As usual the hospital was initially in cover up mode. Until forced to accept that they had fucked up.

I was really affected by it, John Snow was interviewing them and he seemed genuinely upset by it as well.

I was in a terrible state with my first and the midwives weren't interested at all, they just told me to lie on my left side even though this made things way worse and left me to it.
Eventually a doctor came, took one look at me, the baby's heartbeat, the fact meconium had been coming out for a couple of hours, and he said emergency section immediately.

I KNEW that something was wrong. I was induced and my body just wasn't ready. I know what period cramps feel like, and have had a lot of surgery in my life so am no stranger to medical type pain. Have also broken a couple of limbs. The pain I felt was just a terrible wrong-ness, like something being twisted inside me, every time my body tried to contract I was vomiting. The midwife said she couldn't understand why I was distressed, and it was odd that I was throwing up. She said I've never seen anything like this before and wandered off.

Now you see I could tell there was something wrong, because it's my body, and I could feel that things were not right. Not painful, but wrong. I mean it was painful but that wasn't the main problem. It was that sickening feeling you get when a joint twists in the wrong direction but x 1000.

And it was wrong - baby was distressed, cervix was completely shut. Body was complaining about being forced to do something it wasn't ready for.

Anyway. Yes many women have stories like this.

I just read an awful story in the mail (yes, I know) about a couple, both doctors (or at least both worked in the hospital, I don't remember their exact jobs) and the woman was repeatedly told to go home, that she wasn't in labour, despite being in immense pain - and the baby was still born after 6 days of this.

I had to go home and hug my kids and DP, because that could easily have been my story. With my second, I was in incredible pain after days of strong, frequent contractions, but I wasn't dilating, so I wasn't in labour, so wasn't allowed in, but they didn't want to admit me. I knew this wasn't right - the same had happened with DS1, but at an accelerated rate (2 days, not a week because I was induced with syntocin) - I knew that it wasn't right, and only turning up at the hospital, with DP, and refusing to leave meant that I was admitted. Only DP camping at the nurses desk got me any kind of pain relief (pethidine, then gas and air - which they had to bring up to the ward because I wasn't 'in labour).

Basically, it was only my and DP's stubbornness - which was only because I'd been through the exact same before, and DP trusts and supports me when I say something that means that my second son is here. I strongly believe that - had I been compliant, stayed at home, had the epidural so I was quiet on my bed and could be ignored (there weren't enough midwives when they finally took me down to the labour ward).

Women need to be listened to. It's insane that a strong, rich woman, who should be getting the best care available in the world, who is literally the peak of physical fitness, who knows her body so well, was ignored. That was America, if there was some way she could sue the hell out of them, hitting them where they care, that would be awesome. But she has a baby, she's rather pre-occupied, and that's how they get away with it.

I'm also sorry to hear your story Mamaka and not surprised.

Women's testimony of their own experiences is not trusted - by medics, by the police, by society generally.

Actually I have my own story - I'm not black but I was young when I had my first and living in a socially "deprived" area (UK) and knew that the health care providers I saw weren't taking me seriously. In the months that followed me having my first dc, I lost so much weight I went to below 7 stone. I also had an increased heart rate, increased metabolism, I was sweaty and breathless and something felt very wrong. I went to my health visitor and then gp 4 times. Each time I was told I had pnd and needed to look after myself better. I told them I wasn't depressed, I didn't feel depressed, and I wanted to be checked properly. I insisted on having blood tests, they checked my iron levels. By the time they finally checked my thyroid levels my dd was 1 year old. I was under 7 stone and close to collapse. My thyroid levels came back dangerously out of whack - the specialist I saw said there was risk of me having a thyroid "storm" (attack).
It had taken me a year to get health care providers to take me seriously.

Saw this yesterday, not much a of sleb spotter but thought what a lovely pic on the cover and what a great article. I really liked the end where she said she's so glad she had a girl and will teach her to be unstoppable (or similar).

Shocking that the medics didn't listen to her I mean wtf? She will have the most expensive care money can buy, she's a massive superstar, if they don't listen to her that's pretty bloody telling isn't it.

Great stuff overall though.

That NPR article is heartbreaking.

I think Serena Williams's experience of not being listened to is incredibly common. That bit about the nurse thinking she was confused because of her pain meds made me seethe.

Interestingly, the reason for her illness was a pre-existing health problem, which apparently is the main cause of high maternal mortality rates in the US. Not everyone's a fan of the Skeptical OB (be warned - she can be robust in her views) but she has a good post about it here:

www.skepticalob.com/2018/01/serena-williams-almost-becomes-a-maternal-mortality-statistic.html

www.npr.org/2017/12/07/568948782/black-mothers-keep-dying-after-giving-birth-shalon-irvings-story-explains-why

This was on NPR recently.

For what it is worth, I am white but no one noticed I was haemorraging after birth (in the US). all medics left the room. Luckily dh noticed my blood pressure was crashing.

Me too Olenna - she's a great role model.

I think It's a shame that with all she has achieved she felt she had to give birth in order to feel validated as a woman. That's not a very feminist attitude.

I agree with Undercoverbanana on this one. Serena Williams has had life experience outside that of most women for pretty much her entire life. It has been very tennis focussed all of that time, and she has been pilloried in the press for a long time for playing like a man, having muscles like a man, not playing as many sets in a match as men do, blah blah blah (and when she has played against a man, she did good but was definitely a woman)

So I take what she said in that context. It sounds like she is doing something that she really wants and feels connected. Not that she is dissing other women.

It is a shame that, with plenty of money and living in a 1st world country that has everything, that she also gets to experience the crap side of giving birth.

Jaygee61 - I think that's what happens when a woman is criticised for having a muscular physique. Over the years it has probably got in her head. She is fucking awesome. I love her.

Undercoverbanana it didn’t sound like that to me. What she actually said was

“I think [giving birth] will give me more strength, if that’s possible,” she told the newspaper. “I feel like I will be ready for anything. I have so much respect for so many women [for giving birth].

“I am about to be a real woman now, you know? It’s going to be something incredibly impressive to go through.”

Yes giving birth is amazing but it doesn’t mean that women who haven’t or can’t do it are weak and unimpressive and not real women.

From the World Health Organisation, the factors are:

• lack of standard obstetric care with emergencies being identified too late
• underlying health problems which aren't being managed in primary care (because these women are uninsured)
• lack of clear data and oversight.

The Affordable Care Act included maternal care as an essential health benefit - so it's farewell to all that now, anyway.

Sorry - something of a thread derailment but it does sound as if, even with money no object (and the US spends more on maternal care than anywhere else in the world) Serena Williams' case was mishandled.