Celebrating being female

guardian - it was not meant to be depressing! I find it depressing that you consider a biological process that you have no control over to be the peak of female fulfilment. Childrearing is a completely different kettle of fish as it is an actual conscious process. If you consider that Tracey Connolly and Rosemary West have achieved a peak of female fulfilment worth celebrating that Teresa May and Oprah Winfrey will never manage then I suggest that you are the one with the skewed worldview!

We live closer to birth and death than men.

This is so true. YY. Giving birth removed my fear of death. I imagine that death will be quite similar. A prolonged, scary, painful, vulnerable build up followed by release.

I think that all women live closer to birth and death than men, whether or not they have children. We are usually more physically vulnerable than men, we menstruate and undergo medical procedures linked to our reproductive potential, we are expected to care for those close to death.

lemons your post sounds very depressing. What a bleak worldview!

Birthing, breastfeeding and childrearing are very different from 'defacating'.

What a breathtaking insult!

There might be a reason you were attracted to such an acerbic, sour and bitter username!

On topic, from Glosswitch

Men fret about a world run by "inexperienced" famous women. Meanwhile I dream of one run by the hardcore fringes of Mumsnet.

We'd fucking ace it can we do it, can we start a political party

guardianlions - I find your post wholly depressing and deeply patronising. Motherhood is not central to the experience of being female and IMO is certainly not the most remarkable thing a female can do. Having periods is unique to being female but it is not something that we as humans are in control of any more than we are in control of the need to defecate or breathe. Similarly, pregnancy is not an achievement it is a biological process that occurs or doesn't occur following sex. The idea that it is something that people 'achieve' or are proud of is something I find very odd. It's like being proud of how tall you are?

Hermione

I’m an infertile woman who has (obviously) never been pregnant or breastfed. I think this thread is inspiring and gorgeous. Women and our bodies are amazing. I’m in awe of every woman who has done it. It’s life giving and essential. You rock.

Growing a life within you and birthing that child is of course the most intrinsic female capability, but that's different from positioning it as the pinnacle of female fulfilment.

I think it is the pinnacle of female fulfilment for me. If you include breastfeeding, etc, is there anything else better about the female body can do or is uniquely female?

Of course there are a huge number of other things women can do with our lives that are fulfilling - but are those things unique to females?

This thread is a celebrating females one, that's why celebrating bio motherhood is key. It is important - I feel sad for the women who missed the boat of motherhood because of undue negativity (what I learned from experience are damaging lies) about pregnancy, birth and motherhood making them wait for 'perfect' conditions or to intellectually have squared up being 'ready'.

I don't think the childless lesbians, infertile women or the 'it never worked out for them' women are less impressive, valuable or brilliant than women who have kids - often, to wider society as a whole, they are more so. But I still feel they don't know how amazing their own bodies are.. but some might argue you can't miss what you don't know.. Though I feel a lot of compassion for the women who do miss it and I don't want to act like their grief doesn’t matter.

Women's bodies are amazing, whether we have children or not.

I made friends with my neighbour who was the same age as me but who had gone through a disappointing marriage, surgery, found an absolutely lovely husband, but then had no hope of having children with him so had to go through that disappointment. She had a really good career and made lots of friends, then took some time out when her pension was big enough, to explore new options. We sort of connected at this point, when my children got to the more grown up stage, to do things together. She has a perfectly valid woman's experience of life. We took different paths, whether by choice or not, but we are still connected.

I used to hang out with the boys when I was younger, but as I have got older I have grown to enjoy the company of women more.

I am also much more aware of the discrepancies between the lives of men and women.

You do become more of a mother figure to younger women, and yes you can pass on your lived experience. You do not have to have your own children to do this (indeed, your own daughters don't want to know )

What's the difference in celebrating being female versus biological essentialism?

I'm in my late twenties, have never had children and now never will, following numerous surgeries I had last year. I've been at births in a professional capacity, provided non obstetric gynae care for women and now pursue research interests in wider aspects of maternal health.

I didn't grow up in a feminist household, I'm not surrounded by role model matriarchs and I don't see the beauty in every woman around just because they are female.

I appreciate the powerful testimony of pregnancy and birth, understand and have seen women's lives transform for the better as a direct result of it. I've also seen unpleasant things. I think this type of testimony is so important, particularly in the face of poor postpartum care, but this is the testimony and celebration of (biological) motherhood, in a developed country. Growing a life within you and birthing that child is of course the most intrinsic female capability, but that's different from positioning it as the pinnacle of female fulfilment.

I don't see any celebration in myself being female - it is my only existence. The very health problems that I've suffered from are because I am female - I don't have the same romantic views of the power of incredibleness of female biology. I am fortunate that I don't feel the desperation and suffering many women do because of infertility - perhaps this will change. I do find it difficult to navigate other people's reactions (I was visually unwell) when talking about what had happened to me. They talked about my potential future motherhood being taken away from me and the perceived lack of purpose that I would therefore have in my life.

I love the sisterhood of women. Girls have got each other's backs and then when we grow up older women as well as being supportive start almost letting us in on secrets. This woman's culture I think other posters have described.

The eye-roll and raised eyebrow can be like a private language between women.

I like that no matter what the media and men say I feel that it is always women who save the day - cool, calm, collected and fearless in a crisis.

No man makes me laugh like a sarcastic and witty woman can.

Love both barrack and batteries sides of the same coin (is that the right phrase?)

I'd say our fight. We have been pushed down for millennia, but there is always someone fighting for better times. We cannot be beaten.

Being a mum to two ds. Such a mixture of pleasure and pain and heartache. Wouldnt change a minute though.

"I also love female intelligence and wit and culture. Sometimes the women on MN make me laugh so much and think. Hanging out with women is so nurturing"

Absolutely this. ^^

"And I love real women - not the distorted media representation of us, but us in the flesh, flawed and complicated. In fact, I love going to the beach or pool because you see what a huge range of women's bodies there are - so dramatically different from one another but all gorgeous in their own way."

And this too.

I like pretty dresses and jewellery. Mens clothing and accessories are so boring, and they have to carry all their stuff in their pockets instead of having nice handbags!

women have a deeper appreciation of something that I can’t vocalise, the passing of time / the cycles of pain - happiness - pain - happiness that lives go through... so many women go though not just live childbirth but miscarriage or stillbirth. We live closer to birth and death than men. For us it stands just behind the frail curtain of contraception.

That is very poetic batteries and has an ancient ring to it.

I feel a bit differently to everyone else I think

Pregnancy and childbirth is awesome and impressive. But I didn’t like my body post childbirth. It was so changed. The way your vagina is so gapey after I hated it!

Similarly I hate my periods because they are so painful.

But but but. I think that is what I treasure in women. Women’s bodies change. Monthly, yearly, childbearing, menopause.

Men go through puberty and that’s...pretty much it.

I feel like women have a deeper appreciation of something that I can’t vocalise, the passing of time / the cycles of pain - happiness - pain - happiness that lives go through... so many women go though not just live childbirth but miscarriage or stillbirth. We live closer to birth and death than men. For us it stands just behind the frail curtain of contraception.

My body feels both totally unreliable and yet capable of totally amazing things. I feel it gives women empathy in a way men struggle to achieve.

It's a long story that would derail the thread but the end result is that I ended up mix feeding my oldest - both breast and formula. My boobs adjusted to the timetable we eventually found. They "knew" which two times of day to get lactating. I was bowled over by that. Still am!

The industry I currently work in is dominated by women. And in many ways it's the best working environment I've ever had. I think women are better at collaboration and problem-solving.

I love being surrounded by powerful women at work. The culture at my workplace is very male but in the last few years many major positions have gone to women and while I don't always get on with them or agree with them, and sometimes don't like them, the sheer ability to think clearly, quickly grasp the important things, and just get on with things, make progress and demonstrate success is inspiring. And this while we all juggle with having to leave early to collect dcs from nursery because they've vomited. I love the way it's chaotic but ok because we're still getting the job done and out performing many of our male peers while pulling out random kids lollipops from our pockets and using a baby wipe to get rid of the children's snot from our tops.

I don't know if you've already seen this, but this is such a lovely example of a woman lifting other women up:
blackse.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/if-i-can-do-it-so-can-you/

Contrary to the image we have presented to us...

I've been in a few emergencies (fires, almost sinking boat, horrible assault) and every time the women have been stoic, calm, dealt with the emergency and supported each other and the men involved too.

Thank you, Barracker for putting that across so powerfully. I definitely felt most at ease with my physical body post childbirth even though I wouldn't have met any beauty standards. I felt powerful and in awe that my body had grown a human and was keeping it alive.

I love the company of women - I'm from a female dominated family and my gran, mum and sisters were such a support and great company growing up. We were very accepting of each other and I've never recognised the portrayal of groups of women as 'bitchy'. It wasn't my experience growing up and I've not encountered it in my working life either.

Yes I feel so much love for, and protective of younger women.

All the fairy tales like Snow White and Rupunzel would have you think other wise...