Celebrating being female

Yes angry
Being female is an advantage when times are hard too and I seem to recall that women living in poverty/hard times are more likely to have girls and more affluent families, boys.
Yet we are called the weaker sex

Barracker - I am sorry that I didn't read your post as you intended it, I was simply responding to what I understood by it. I do not seek to be destructive but i do find it depressing that amongst all of the wonderful things people have posted on this thread that there are those who consider that the pinnacle of female fulfilment is reproducing. it is not about tearing others down it is about expressing a difference of opinion. Perhaps my view is coloured by the fact that through my work i come across an awful lot of people who are not IMO the people who I would consider people who should be celebrated, yet they have without fail given birth often despite the fact their actions and lifestyle are often not in the best interests of their children. I accept that that may well colour my view.

Ignoring...

Female bodies may have less upper body strength and less speed over short distances than male bodies, but we really come into our own in endurance events. Ultra marathon? Long distance swimming? Being female is an advantage there.

Get caught in the snow? More likely to survive extreme cold temperatures. Who lives longer on average? It's us!

Yes, Quentin, agreed.
I had meant to post to Hermione for her lovely post.

hinged

Can we ignore the derailer please?

You need to reread my post as you have entirely missed the point.

It is EXACTLY because I understand that birth and pregnancy are such a risk that I am passionate about the rights if women globally.
It is BECAUSE I almost died that I understand how critical maternal healthcare is globally.
It is because I have lived in Africa and India that I have seen first hand the impact of this biological process you dismiss so cavalierly as a mere consequence of sex that I grant it the importance it deserves.

This is a thread to celebrate the magnificence of being female.

Add your own experience. We'll celebrate that with you.
Don't tear down those of others. Don't be destructive.

barracker - i think that your whole post comes from such a position of 1st world privilege. The vast majority of pregnancies across the world are not a matter of choice they are just a possible outcome of sex. The idea that all pregnancies are a result of a reasoned choice by women is simply nonsensical. Where there is free and easy access to contraception there is also usually very low rates of maternal death and therefore women in the 1st world are not as a rule risking their lives. These are the women who are choosing pregnancy. Those who are not able to choose through lack of access to contraception are also sadly those who really are risking their lives.

Aw fuck hinged

Guardians, I don't think my post was taking away childbirth being the pinnacle of female fulfilment for you. I said it was important for women to share their stories of individual empowerment and their birth experiences. I don't think I have a concept of there being a notion of "female fulfilment", from an individual point of view or through a feminist lens. This thread was posted on feminist chat and I posted in line with that about unpicking a concept of universal female fulfilment.

Pregnancy and birth as phenomena, are fascinating to me, they may also be amazing experiences for women. For many women, giving birth is a massive baptism of biology, in an otherwise incredibly sanitised life that's removed from life events. For many women, there isn't that level of engagement with it. For others, there is a lot of suffering.

Women's bodies are amazing, whether we have children or not.

I mean mine isn't. The endometriosis that grew out of my uterus and tangled itself across all my pelvic organs and bowel, that then led them to all prolapse out of me, be meshed back and suspended off my spine, might be fascinating clinically, but for me experiencing it, it's been fucking awful.

I think the sense of shame that infertile people apparently feel, according to you Quentin, is more likely down to these type of opinions that tie up womanhood and motherhood into one bundle that cannot be separated.

The idea that infertility is shameful alongside the fact that Guardian didn't even seem to conceive of childfree by choice in her little list of 'women who will never know the glory of giving birth' is at the root of all this. I wonder if women in 3rd world countries having their 16th or 17th child have these wonder moments of self actualisation or is that reserved for privileged western women?

I hoped that this wouldn't turn into "but some women can't..." misery, and denigration of others experiences.

"Similarly, pregnancy is not an achievement it is a biological process that occurs or doesn't occur following sex. The idea that it is something that people 'achieve' or are proud of is something I find very odd. It's like being proud of how tall you are?"

Each woman who chooses pregnancy and chooses birth is consciously risking her life and health. Every woman should be in complete control of what she does with her body. And when you've risked death yourself and felt the enormity of using your own body to bring forth another, you gain an intense respect for any woman who willingly chooses this, and a ferocious drive that such a momentous experience should always and only ever be a free choice. For every woman, everywhere.

I don't for one moment use my experience to prescribe to others. On the contrary, having done it myself, I would fight more fiercely for those who don't choose it. It's too huge to be treated as ordinary. Birth may be commonplace, but it is impossible to state the enormity of it.

Yes absolutely. I am so not jealous. I'm delighted to be older and to be able to be myself and express my opinions without caring what other people will think of me for having them. I'm so glad to be beyond worrying if men find me attractive. So freeing.

"I think one of the realisations I've had recently has been just how much effort goes in to making the voices of older women seem irrelevant and dated. The only reason i can think of for this is that us sharing our wisdom and life experience with younger women is perceived to be dangerous and must be stopped."

Yep. Much easier for men to take advantage of young women if they've been convinced that older women are "just jealous" and there's no need to take our advice or attempts to warn them about shit men might try to pull on them seriously.

anlaf let's show WEP how to do a proper job!!

I saw the tweet yesterday and was like "YAAAAAAAASSSSSS"

I think one of the realisations I've had recently has been just how much effort goes in to making the voices of older women seem irrelevant and dated. The only reason i can think of for this is that us sharing our wisdom and life experience with younger women is perceived to be dangerous and must be stopped.

guardian I'm with you too. Pregnancy/birth/lactation is an amazing thing. When my first child was born I had on overwhelming sense of feeling like a different person. My body was doing what it was designed to do. It is very powerful (hence why infertile people often feel a sense of shame).

lemon I have never had that feeling about having a shit.

Thanks for a great thread op

"Which is massively patronising and also IMO very offensive to women whose bodies do not fulfil your criteria i.e those who are infertile or whose bodies do not sustain pregnancies."

They do fulfil my criteria. Their female bodies are still amazing even there is a problem conceiving or sustaining pregnancies. They are still female.

So I guess mine would be that the thing I love most about being a woman is my connection to other women.
This. My friendships with women, people who absolutely and unquestioningly have my back, people who give me support when I need it and give me a huge sense of satisfaction and pride when they ask me to return the favour.
I don't know many men with tgat depth of friendship and I'm so grateful I have it.

guardian - but all of that was with the caveat that

'I think it is the pinnacle of female fulfilment for me.' which i took to mean you as referring to all females rather than your own personal fulfilment

and

'I still feel they don't know how amazing their own bodies are.. but some might argue you can't miss what you don't know.'

Which is massively patronising and also IMO very offensive to women whose bodies do not fulfil your criteria i.e those who are infertile or whose bodies do not sustain pregnancies.

Anlaf thanks for the twitter thread

lemons I think I covered Theresa May and Oprah Winfrey (although Oprah did lose an infant as a young teen) when I said:
"I don't think the childless lesbians, infertile women or the 'it never worked out for them' women are less impressive, valuable or brilliant than women who have kids - often, to wider society as a whole, they are more so."

Every time I see the male reaction to anything even lightly knocking against their balls I'm pretty glad I don't have those. Or dangly bits in general, seems inconvenient. How are they not constantly sitting on them? Much happier with the way things are shaped on women from that perspective.

Hermione how lovely.

I’m really enjoying this thread too.

Just to be cheeky I’d like to say the clitoris is quite a fulfilling part of being a female

HermioneWeasley

Re women being "inexperienced" at politics, even if that was true I'm not sure how it would be possible for us to fuck things up more badly than the blokes have done.

Considering that women still die in childbirth sometimes even with the best possible medical care I'd say that if any woman who's done it considers it an achievement I as a childless woman would have to be pretty churlish to begrudge her feeling that way.