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Original poster

I'm not beautiful...is that ok?

111 replies

TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 05:13

I'm having a dilemma about how to feel about my appearance and would love your opinions, as feminists, on this issue.

Like many women I struggle with low self esteem. When I look at myself in the mirror on a low day I see a spotty face, crooked teeth, big nose etc. etc.

I recognise that my pre-occupation with my appearance is, at least in part, a product of our patriarchal society which values beauty above every other characteristic in a woman. Heroines in books, films, TV shows etc are generally beautiful and sure maybe they're also funny and intelligent but beauty matters above everything. I'm sure this has skewed my perspective of myself.

My usual tactic when I'm feeling down is to tell myself that, no, I am beautiful, and think back to times when someone has complimented me. I'm not sure that this is productive though and I worry that it just perpetuates the cycle that beauty is absolutely paramount and a non-negotiable quality that a woman must have.

It would surely be better for me to accept that I'm not beautiful and that's ok. I accept other failings in my character and such failings don't rule my head as much as this one does (e.g. not being as funny as a comedian, as rich or driven as a CEO etc.)

I do find this attitude difficult to reconcile with how I'd parent any future daughter though. It really messed me up that my parents told me I wasn't pretty whilst praising the looks of my sister and other kids. But surely the philosophy that they were applying was what I'm trying to come to terms with now.

God, society (and my self esteem) are fucked up. I would want to tell any future daughter that she's beautiful but at the same time I want to break the cycle that beauty matters so much. I'm not sure the actions of one person in the face of overwhelming resistance from society is productive though. My parents actions were the opposite of productive for me and I think they've left me very confused.

OP posts:
Renfrewshire · 10/01/2018 10:38

Your girls sound very switched on about this issue, so this probably wouldn't affect them, but one thing I would say is don't talk about how pretty the other girls are or how good they look in their clothes. I don't think you would anyway but my mum did it to me. It was unintentional but it was clear how much she admired a few of the beautiful girls I knew (particularly the ones who were also clever and talented at extra-curriculars) whereas to me she would only say things like "will you please brush your hair? You can't go out like that."
I am not attractive so I'm glad she didn't say "oh you're so beautiful" but at the same time it was clear I didn't measure up and she would have preferred me to be pretty.

Bluntness100 · 10/01/2018 10:28

I'd disagree with you on a number of points.

Firstly I disagree beauty in humans is to do with a patriarchy. In fact in my experience women can be the most judgemental of other women.

Secondly attractiveness in both sexes is perceived as a positive quality.

Thirdly very few people see beauty as all that's required in eithe gender. In fact over whelmingly being intelligent with a good personality is perceived as equally important. No one wants to be or envies the "dumb blonde" to use a typical stereotype.

In terms of my daughter, yes I will not like she is attractive. Yes I tell her she looks great or is pretty. I want her to have good self esteem and I would be lying to say society has no importance against it.

However I also tell her how smart she is. And she is hugely intelligent in her final year of her law degree.

I also tell her when she's being a nice person. That I love her and she's cared for.

I also believe beauty or attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder. We all perceive different things as attractive or beautiful. There is no universal standard.

In addition many things can make people seem more attractive than a still photo would indicate. Personality, intelligence, confidence to name but a few.

So where as I agree that society places a level of importance against beauty I really don't think that's due to men, or that's all society places importance against.

And lastly you're wrong on Hollywood stereo types. You say Harry Potter. Harry Potter the lead is hermione granger and the films focus primarily on her intelligence and abilities. There is no ugly swan to duckling there.

EggsonHeads · 10/01/2018 10:22

Everyone gets old and ugly. It's not worth worrying about.

TheLuminaries · 10/01/2018 10:20

I tell my daughters they are beautiful, because they are beautiful to me. When I look at them I see the most beautiful girls in the world. Objectively, I know they are not model material, but that does not stop them being incredibly beautiful in my eyes, so why shouldn't I tell them that?

Similarly, my DH makes me feel like I the most desirable, sexy woman in any room. Objectively, I know I'm not, but it is lovely to have one special someone who thinks you are.

What I am saying is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. People you love never look ugly to you. My DH tells me I am gorgeous because I am gorgeous to him.

So the answer is - if you are loved, you are beautiful in the only way that really matters.

Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 10:12

I don't tell my partner he's tall (he's not). I do tell him I love him as he is and wouldn't wish he was taller (true).

So why do we tell women they're attractive (untrue) rather than saying, no you're not attractive but that's ok. Your happiness does not depend on your attractiveness.

OP posts:
AuntLydia · 10/01/2018 10:12

Your partner sounds like a good 'un. It makes me uncomfortable when mine compliments my looks. I would far rather he said something like yours. I really don't value beauty in my Relationships at all. It wouldn't even make the list for what I want in a friend

Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 10:09

PinkChestnut I think objectively that's not the case though.

I'm my view, just like any other normal human attribute such as intelligence or height there is a distribution of women along a bell curve of attractiveness. It's a shame that society has deemed beauty the be all and end all but that's how it is. I haven't found it helpful when people have said to me in discussions like this "nooo, you're beautiful" it's shutting down a discussion about why we value beauty so much and what we can do to get out of this cycle. More helpful was my partner saying "Er yeah, you're not a supermodel but I love you. When I look at you I see you, more than the sum of your features. You. You're my [silly nickname]" (paraphrasing but that was the idea). To me that's honest and it's...right...

Why does everyone have to be beautiful? Every woman I should say.

OP posts:
Idontdowindows · 10/01/2018 10:00

It's ok to not be beautiful and to know that you're not beautiful.

I'm not. Never was. Marginally attractive as a teenager at most. Still happy and doing what I want to do :)

PinkChestnut · 10/01/2018 09:55

I truly believe everyone is beautiful. However society teaches us that only one cookie cutter look is beautiful. Wouldn't want us knowing we're all beautiful as we are as then we wouldn't need to buy this products etc

AuntLydia · 10/01/2018 09:22

I can relate to the carousel totally. At heart I'm not really interested in looks, make up or fashion. I'm most comfortable with bare face and comfy clothes. Then I notice how attractive my sister or my friends are who do care about these things and start wishing I look like them and dig out the make up until I get bored again and so it continues.

MorrisZapp · 10/01/2018 09:13

Age is indeed a great leveller, but the bar keeps rising for middle aged women. I'm 46 and Instagram tells me I should be skin cared, made up and stylish to the max.

Sometimes I'm in favour of this, my gran at 46 literally looked like an old woman whereas my friends and I have 'still got it'. Why give up because we're not young any more?

But sometimes I hate it because I just don't have the energy to give a shit how I look. There's no escape is there.

Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 09:10

I do get to that point Lang but then the cycle starts again and I feel awful about myself. I don't know if it's hormonal or what but it's a carousel that I desperately want to get off! Genghis your two comments will be ones I'll try to refer to at said low points (this whole thread really).

OP posts:
LangCleg · 10/01/2018 09:05

Somehow, I think the trick is in not caring whether you are beautiful or not beautiful. I don't know how exactly you get to that point but for me it came in my twenties when I had the realisation that I just didn't care about fashion/clothes. I'd been boring myself to death buying and wearing fashionable clothes. So I just stopped bothering. The sky didn't fall in. Nobody pointed and laughed at the scruff bag in the corner. People reacted to me as they always had. And from there, it kind of flowed that appearance honestly doesn't count for much with people that are worth having in your life.

I hope you get to a point where beauty, or lack of it, isn't important to you, OP.

Flowers
WhatWouldGenghisDo · 10/01/2018 09:05

It sounds glib I know but I do think we take ourselves (our bodies) far too much for granted. We need to stop looking at them from the outside as if they are some sort of objet d'art and start living in them from the inside and paying attention to the power they give us. Power to move, touch other people, change things, go wherever we like, say what we mean, get what we need.

(The way we think about our bodies is like being given the most incredible vehicle that lets us go to the moon and under the sea and being upset because we didn't want a red one!)

Intercom · 10/01/2018 09:01

The supposed "ideal" model/celeb appearance is not even genetic good luck much of the time. After some combination of cosmetic surgery, Botox, fake tan, eyebrow plucking, hair dye, hair extensions, high heels, advice from a stylist, makeup and airbrushing, women often look nothing like how they would otherwise.

Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 08:48

Genghis you're right of course, I hope I could make her see that and not care if she ends up with my nose!

OP posts:
Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 08:46

boopsy life is unfair like that. Some people are smart, some people are beautiful, some people are great singers etc. and most are just normal. It's all a genetic lottery really. But beauty seems to be a trait that it's unacceptable for a woman not to have (or at least be told she has).

OP posts:
WhatWouldGenghisDo · 10/01/2018 08:46

Your daughter will be beautiful because she'll be a unique, perfect human with a face that can express all sorts of thoughts and emotions, a voice that can talk and sing and laugh, a body that can do incredible things from the million things that keep her alive and healthy to running and climbing and dancing and hugging and making things by hand, a brain that can think and love and have opinions and make connections.

She'll be amazing. Who cares what her nose looks like?

user838383 · 10/01/2018 08:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 08:14

I'll always do this though. Reach a point of acceptance and be happy with myself and then a bad photo or hormone surge and boom - back to rock bottom. I guess recognising the problem helps?

OP posts:
Original poster
TheHodgeHeg · 10/01/2018 08:10

boopsy re the comment of age being a leveller do you think you see a level playing field because you are less familiar with the older appearance and what is valued as beautiful for an older person?

Sort of like the way some people say (or think, as it would be very tactless to say) "all Asians look the same". That's not true at all but it gets said by people who are not familiar with Asian faces and are applying white centric facial recognition / differentiation methods to their appearances.

I do find when I look back at old pictures of classmates that, beyond the few exceptionally attractive girls, everyone else (me included) is just a normal looking tween/teenager. I did not feel that way at the time, I thought I was uncommonly unattractive. We're fed a myth that the majority of women are stunningly beautiful but it's just not true, and that's ok.

I like the word attractive wrappedup and the sentiment of feeling good Damn.

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wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 10/01/2018 07:59

I like the word attractive because it can apply to both sexes and it is broad enough to mean healthy, well groomed, friendly and approachable, well dressed etc. so you can be not beautiful or handsome and also attractive. It’s a word that avoids racial stereotypes too because certainly the western idea of beauty for women mainly revolves around a stereotype of blonde and slender. I think you can also look different and be attractive (thinking about disability here).

CharizMa · 10/01/2018 07:51

.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 10/01/2018 07:45

I used to worry about this but have changed as I've got older. I now concentrate on feeling good above looking good. I look after my skin because it feels good and I don't wear anywhere near the amount of make up I used to. I have my hair a way that is low maintenance and feels great, to me. Might not look great but I love it.

user838383 · 10/01/2018 07:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.