I'm not beautiful...is that ok?

I can't look in the mirror because I find it so painful, I know I'm ugly I literally hate my face. I feel bad for my beautiful daughters that people might look at me and think that's how they will age. I do tell my daughters they look lovely, but I do debate it in my head. I don't want that to be how they value themselves but I also feel it gives them confidence. In fact if I don't think they look great I'm more likely to say " you look lovely " then they are shoulders back and out to face the world. I do also tell them I'm proud of their work effort , kindness etc it's not only looks. But they probably see how much I hate myself and that's sad.

Going back to the point about self esteem, if your self-worth rests on believing yourself to be better than others (relatively intelligent, prettier, whatever) there are 2 problems with this.

1. as soon as you have to engage with people who can trump you on your valued attribute (are prettier, cleverer etc) or you lose your claim to that attribute (e.g. by getting old) your self-worth is at risk

2. you're implicitly in competition with everyone all the time. That must surely be rather exhausting and bad for your relationships

Respecting and loving yourself and others for your shared humanity is the way to have lifelong, rock-solid self esteem

I think there are pros and cons. Id have liked to know what life is like being invisible in a way - I'm not and sometimes thats difficult.

I still look ‘stunning’ bare faced.

Which presumably includes having lovely skin. Which you might have naturally, or because of a skin care regime you follow, or because of your diet etc.

I could have lovely skin, but I don’t because I don’t have a skin care regime beyond owning skin, and my diet is, um, sub optimum.

I don’t think I look shit

I'm sure you don't, in fact I'm sure you look fantastic. My comment wasn't aimed at you. Or anyone else. I don't know what you look like. I don't know how anyone looks on here. I only know how I look. And yes I feel I look like crap if I'm overweight, poorly dressed, messy hair and looking knackered.

Oh I see, sorry!

Yeah I don’t agree with Bluntness

I feel like I could've written this post. I'm always looking in the mirror trying to figure out which part of me isn't right because to myself I look horrible, I then make myself get over it and decide I'm not that bad at all.
Then I see one horrible picture of myself and back to square one or I'll get ready for a meal out and think I look fantastic then I walk into the restaurant and see all these stunning women and I shrink back down and hate myself again.
I know I have issues, major issues, my mother never ever told me I was pretty but shed tell my brother that he was handsome and I think that it what started it all.
I tell my children that they are beautiful but more than that I tell them they are clever and creative and funny and witty etc.
They know that looks aren't important but I do feel like sometimes they will pick up on how I am with myself and that worries me.

on’t pass comment on someone’s actual face and whether it looks better or worse today. I think it’s a bit rude to tbh

That was my point earlier. But apparently its “one of the saddest things” bluntness has ever read, to take a compliment as rudeness/insulting.

I think you are right about prioritising looks in a way BUT it is also just how you are no?
I apparently still look " stunning" bare faced..

“Looking shit” is subjective though isn’t it.

I haven’t had my hair cut in 3 years. I don’t wear make up, i don’t get my brows or nails done. I am overweight, i wear practical, comfortable clothes.

I don’t think I look shit. Nowhere near it. I am clean and tidy and appropriately dressed for my job/life.

Personally, i don’t think the trend for fake tan, eyebrows/lashes, nails, hair etc looks great.

I don’t like the implications on these threads that if I don’t wear make up I look ill/pale/ungroomed/like i don’t care or whatever. Even if i do have bags under my eyes i don’t see why not covering them up means i look like shit.

Most women we think of as beautiful are beautiful because they’ve prioritised it and put in a fuck ton of effort and/or money.

Most of us could be beautiful if we were prepared to do this. I’m not so I’ll just amble along with my low maintenance hair, flabby bits and dull skin, prioritising things that do matter to me.

I am what is considered beautiful. I am also 46. I am actually finding getting older very difficult because I am aware that my looks are fading slightly.
I'm also clever and funny and crap at loads of stuff like most of us but 'Ive spent 30 years turning heads and it's hard when that starts to change.

Not good OR bad, just a shift.

I wouldn’t make either comment really.

I might say oh your lipstick is a nice shade, where did you get it - but then I’m complimenting the choice, not how it makes them look, if you see what I mean. I compliment make up / clothing choices in the way I compliment home decor. That’s a nice shade / these two things compliment each other, etc. I don’t pass comment on someone’s actual face and whether it looks better or worse today. I think it’s a bit rude to tbh.

You’re basically saying I am worth more if I conform to societies idea of a woman’s beauty

This is an odd take and a deliberate misunderstanding I think. The posters comment was clearly not made in relation to worth. Simply as humans, men and women, our self esteem rises and we feel more confident when we look better.

You personally may be one of the rare humans who places no value whatsoever in your personal attractiveness or how you present, but I think you'd have to live under a rock to know that across the whole species good grooming and attractiveness is considered one of many valuable assets,

For me, no I don't feel great with my hair a mess, scruffy clothes on, being overweight, eye bags and sallow skin on full display. There is no glory in looking shit.

So why is not ok to tell someone that they look much prettier today without lipstick.

But it is a compliment to say you look much prettier today with lipstick?

To me it’s the same thing.

But somehow i am a “better” version of myself if I dye my hair and lose some weight?

How exactly does it do that? It doesn’t improve my abilities or personality as you say. So how does changing my looks make me a better version of myself?

You’re basically saying I am worth more if I conform to societies idea of a woman’s beauty.

I suppose I mean making an effort to look your best in whatever style you choose, rather than just not making an effort at all. Trimmed hair rather than dead ends, styled as you choose rather than just not bothered with. Clean clothes in a good state of repair, not stained or out of shape. If you have grey hair then have it because you've chosen it, not just because you can't be bothered to do anything with your hair.

Some people couldn't care less about their appearance and that's up to them. But I still think most people have higher self esteem (and appear more attractive to others) when they've made the best of themselves.

But somehow i am a “better” version of myself if I dye my hair and lose some weight?

How exactly does it do that? It doesn’t improve my abilities or personality as you say. So how does changing my looks make me a better version of myself?

You’re basically saying I am worth more if I conform to societies idea of a woman’s beauty.

I quite often want to tell people they are much prettier without all the lipstick/ make up/hd brows etc.>

But that wouldn’t be taken as a compliment would it?

Well no, because it’s a bit like telling someone in a bright orange dress ‘oh you’d look much better in a muted brown’

Maybe a more natural look might make them look more attractive to you / most people. But maybe they like orange. In which case I say wear the orange!

My looks bear no relation to my abilities

No ones looks bear any relation to their abilities. That's an odd thing to say. Looks are just one facet of us as humans.

I tell my children they are gorgeous and beautiful. I tell them to dress and be, whatever makes them happy. I tell them if I like their outfit, or hairstyle etc.

But I also tell them how clever they are, what good ideas they have, how kind they are, how funny they are, how much common sense they have etc.

I also remind them, that looks fade or things can happen in life where looks are affected, and all you are left with is you. Don’t neglect your personality in favour of looks. And don’t neglect your physical self either....be healthy, exercise etc

Not easy though. Hoping I’ve got it right. I had appalling self esteem as a child and teen. And I was always being called ‘pretty’ by others.

I quite often want to tell people they are much prettier without all the lipstick/ make up/hd brows etc.

But that wouldn’t be taken as a compliment would it?

There's a lot to be said for being your best self though - clean and well dressed, teeth sorted by a dentist, fit and not overweight, dye grey hair if necessary and get a haircut, etc. You don't have to be beautiful to make an effort to be your best self.

Why is “best self” looks specific? Should I think someone above is “better” than someone with grey hair and slightly wonky teeth? You are still judging and giving credence to the appearance is the most valuable asset thinking.

I have wonky teeth, and have no intention of dying my hair. i am also two stone overweight. I have worked for many years at the bench in cancer research. My looks bear no relation to my abilities. But if you think I’d be a better version of myself by changing my appearance, when I don’t actually want to....

I’d take comments like that as insults, personally. Say you like my jacket, fine, but don’t infer I have improved myself with external trappings

That's one of the saddest things I've read on here. And beyond weird to say it's meant you've improved yourself and to see a compliment as an insult. 😔

Nope. Real self esteem is about knowing that I am a valuable, loveable human being even if I'm not particularly clever, beautiful, or outstandingly good at anything compared to everyone else

But why is it one or the other to you? Why do you feel that knowing you're a valuable, loveable human being who is also smart intelligent and beautiful to you a bad thing?

You can be both you know. You can feel you're both. There is nothing wrong with knowing your worth, for bringing up a child who believes in themselves. There is everything wrong in bringing up a child who thinks they are"not very beautiful, clever or good at anything in comparison to everyone else"