Ok so someone educate me about neo vaginas **Title edited by MNHQ at the OP's request**

With the recent advances in transplant surgery, it won't be too long before people can receive donor reproductive organs.

It is a cruel hoax by the trans advocates and the medical community to have convinced an entire generation of young people that they will receive an organ transplant through the manipulative language they use when talking about the surgery. Calling it a sex change operation for the past sixty years is the first and biggest lie.

Didn't someone do that recently? Make plaster cast models of vulvas and display them in a museum for plaudits and hurrahs?

Doesn't everyone do that?

Yes, IW looked through a book of 10k vaginas and picked her fave one apparently. Because...thats how it works. Sure.

IW will be incorrectly using vagina to refer to the external appearance of a vulva, no doubt.

Well if anyone is really wondering about this, they could just watch CBB, where India Willoughby is happily informing people that vaginas can be selected by looking at pictures in a book.

No wonder trans people are confused, depressed, miserable if they think that the wonder that is a proper, home-grown multifunctional vagina can be made out of a few pieces of skin and a photograph.

"trans" children really are being sold a pup

Totally agree.

In particular, it drives me nuts when you get those squeamish TMI warnings on threads to do with pregnancy and birth or gynae issuesn and on bloody MN of all places.

Thank you Rachel.
Some of us natal women do talk frankly about our bodies but get shut down by other women calling it oversharing.No wonder so many of us have an incomplete understanding of our anatomy if we can even talk about it between ourselves.And how often on these oversharing threads do you read woman after woman sat
Saying ,I thought it was just me.

Loss of clitoris must mean loss of penile tip to make ‘clitoris’ or inability to make ‘clitoris’ with the materials at hand (penis). So it means surely loss of ability to create ‘clitoris’.

Yes, the neoclitoris between 1% and 10% of the time will necrotise, scab over, and then fall off, generally leaving little sensate tissue.

Rachel the links I provided give the risks of complications, so I'm well aware of them. My point is merely that if even a simple single incision usually causes some degree of numbness, (often severe,) it seems impossible that completely dissecting and reassembling the genital tissue would not result in extensive nerve damage.

Yes Rachel, thank you for your honesty and willingness to share intimate and personal information.

Rachel - thanks for your posts

Loss of clitoris must mean loss of penile tip to make ‘clitoris’ or inability to make ‘clitoris’ with the materials at hand (penis). So it means surely loss of ability to create ‘clitoris’.

Argh, I think I am best leaving this thread. I wish all people suffering GID well and that they have the means of recovery from it, but my mind is too boggled at the moment.

I didn’t say you should sugar coat the answer, just that it was your choice to make the answer. I said people generally may be too polite to discuss these things, which may be why people follow the TRA line so unquestioningly.

I keep feeling like I am saying one thing and you are understanding/responding to another.

Anyway, I think it was an interesting discussion but I cannot say it is something I would ever google.

Why would a medical professional ask you to accept the risk of losing what you never had. That loss of clitoris risk item makes no sense.

Thank you, everyone!
I'll finish my contribution to this thread, if I may, with these points:
Datun - No need to apologise. This is healthy, intelligent debate about an issue which is extremely serious.

LangCleg - Please don't worry. I just thought I was in a position to offer an insight into what I've been through. Yeah - it's gruesome and intimate, but anonymous enough.

IcedCocoa - Thank you. But reading APaB's original question, there's not going to be any simple way to sugar-coat the answer. I've tried to be sensitive and spare the gruesome details. Anyone wishing to find out more can easily do so. We all have Google.

hipsterfun

And we were trying to quietly get on with our own lives until all this shit started kicking up from the TRAs. Fetishists wanting "women's rights". Blokes with erect penises being able to waltz around women's changing rooms (Baaarff). Transsexuals (generally) were trying to "blend in" as much as possible. Anything which accentuates the disparity between our Birth Sex and our Acquired Gender was absolutely horrific to us - that's what Gender Dysphoria IS! What we have now is unfathomable to me, yet very dangerous for so many.

Yup TRAs are bad for everyone, except TRAs and other fetishists and pervs looking for access to women. But noone besides transsexual people and women seem to be able to see it! Its extremely frustrating.

That is the most honest statement I've ever read from a transwoman.

It simply acknowledges that women exist, that we are anatomically very different from you and that it is not possible to become one, only a best approximation.

Yes, was a very refreshing read. Its the utter denial that transowmen are in any way different to women that annoys me most about this whole thing I think.

rachel thank you for your posts, very informative and helpful to this discussion
Re TRAs do you feel able to speak out about them IRL in terms of the negative effect they are having on people with genuine gender dysphoria? I feel it would carry so much more weight coming from transsexuals like yourself who can’t just be labelled terf/bigot

But nobody has unexpectedly ambushed anyone about the topic in the queue at Waitrose, or on a long-distance train journey. Surely anyone not wishing to participate, on a thread titled as this one is, just doesn’t participate?

I find it intrusive if I feel the tone is that it's me interrogating somebody else. But I don't have the least problem in being open myself.

Hence, I do wonder if it is about gender socialisation. I think Rachel, you came to the thread and spoke very openly and clearly about things which we female people find intrusive to continue discussing.

I’m a female person and I don’t regard it as intrusive in this context. It’s an anonymous online discussion forum, and we are discussing the topic respectfully. It’s not the same as in real life because if you don’t want to answer, it’s easy enough to walk away. This is true for all of us.

In terms of being intrusive, this is what I meant earlier when i said I would not be comfortable discussing my orgasms. Hence, I do wonder if it is about gender socialisation. I think Rachel, you came to the thread and spoke very openly and clearly about things which we female people find intrusive to continue discussing. Just an observation.

I wonder if that is one reason the TRAs have traction - we are all too polite to discuss the nitty gritty of what is actually below (and the law prohibits us from asking in a same-sex space). It’s an interesting point. At least three people on this thread have said they find the discussing intrusive for Rachel although she initiated it (and would hopefully tell us when it crossed a line for her).

Again - although I feel it in a greater area, it's less intense. It wouldn't wish to say whether males or females have better orgasms, but from my perspective, one is intense in a very specific area and the other is less intense in a greater area. It's certainly not a matter of the same intenity as before, but engulfs the whole body.

This made me laugh (not at you, Rachel, I hasten to add) because husband and myself have had similar conversations about the difference between women and men vis a vis orgasms and come to pretty much the same conclusion.

I agree with Datun that this does all feel unpleasantly intrusive. But, on the other hand, I also think frankness about such things is both helpful and interesting. So thanks for being so open.

Rachel40s

I'm wondering if this my socialisation, or just a natural feeling, but I've decided I don't care. So I want to apologise again for putting you on the stand like this. It feels incredibly intrusive.

I feel the need to point out that I don't suppose there's a woman here who would drill down in to any kind of male surgery in order to make someone justify it.

The only reason women dissect all this is because of the rebranding and remarketing of gender dysphoria as something very different.

Being transgender, currently, is almost an aspiration for many of our youngsters.

Again, I will use Jazz Jennings. Feted and celebrated on a TV show, which, by its nature, has to put a positive spin on almost everything. But even they can't paper over the cracks of what looks like a horrific situation.

If you google Jazz Jennings, gender dysphoria is barely mentioned. It's all about him wanting to wear a tutu when he was five. Which would strike fear into the heart of almost every parent, because so many boys do. Of course.

So gender dysphoria doesn't seem to have figured too largely.

Nonetheless, can you imagine any other psychological condition being portrayed in a reality show as something positive?

And served up as entertainment - but that's another thread entirely.

Anyway, however cynical I remain in general, it's very good of you to lay yourself bare. And I'm glad the surgery is working for you, personally.

Hi Datun. - Does that sound like a family who have been well informed? - I don't know very much about Jazz Jennings, but you make excellent points! As I understand it, Jazz is involved in a TV programme. Sounds more "scripted" than a spontanious conversation at the dinner table. Doesn't seem like a typical evening conversation (trans kids or otherwise) to me, so I get your point.

from your chest to your knees was it? Sounds 'better than ever'. - Again - although I feel it in a greater area, it's less intense. It wouldn't wish to say whether males or females have better orgasms, but from my perspective, one is intense in a very specific area and the other is less intense in a greater area. It's certainly not a matter of the same intenity as before, but engulfs the whole body. That'd be bullshit.

Scrumplestiltskin - I find it extremely difficult to believe that the results of trans genital surgery can have much sensation. - Okie doke. That's yours to believe. Maybe I was one of the lucky ones. I was given the following statistics which I had to accept when undergoing surgery:
Loss of clitoris - 2%
Fistula - 1%
Stricture of the Urethra -