Ok so someone educate me about neo vaginas **Title edited by MNHQ at the OP's request**

allmywhat

You make some very good points and once again these are part of the overal thinking that "you were a man, how can you" series of questions.

On your first point, if you had a full abdominal hysterectomy, would you stop having orgasms? If you were born without a uterus, would you stop having orgasms? Of course not.

Do I have have vaginal contractions? Yes of course I do, I have exactly the same muscle structure as a natal female. My muscles contract the same way as any other female. I have clitoral orgams, I have vaginal orgams and I have blended orgasms, and there is no correlation between those and male orgams, they are completely different. My vaginal canal contracts in the same way as yours, becomes lubricated the same way as yours, and I have the same risk with thrush and BV as you could have. The only thing different is I have no cervix, but neither does many women who have lost theirs to cancer.

The brain of a post-operative female is the same as a natal female, the dopamine receptors are identical. The male and female human being is identical apart from one thing - hormones. The more estrogen there is, the more the brain feminises.

In regards to your followup question, I was born with a DSD, I did not choose to be classed as male. Even before transition, my testosterone levels were the same as a natal female. Part of the problem here is the "them and us" attitude. The hormones we have at puberty merely give us our secondary sex characteristics, which means the only thing I cannot do as a post-operative female is give birth naturally. But that will be possible in the future, as science is already growing uteruses and ovaries from stem cells which will be implantable back inside us. If I had wide enough hips I would be able to give birth naturally.

To say that I can't have orgasms like a woman and don't have the epistemic standpoint is both hurtful and borderline transphobic, but I will take it, as its a viewpoint that has to be addressed. I have always considered myself to be female, I had treatment for a condition to lead a somewhat normal life, but because of a large amount of misinformation and misunderstanding in society, you always assume we were men and are still men and can't possibly know what it's like to be a woman.

What happened to feminism and equality?

Lastly, SRS surgery is on the increase, not decrease. The majority of patients with gender dysphoria will seek and get surgery, the only limitation to this is money and the lack of available surgeons.

Fairplay for Women:
"The vast majority of male-born transwomen still have a penis"
(extract)
"No one knows for sure how many transwomen keep their penis, but there are fewer than 10 surgeons in the UK who can undertake the relevant operation. Even if they each performed one operation every single day this would still only represent an absolute maximum of 3,500 surgeries each year. The actual number performed is likely to be very much smaller than this. An estimate of just a few hundred operations each year would not be unreasonable.

There is also data available from the US HERE showing that genital surgery is very rare. In this study (sampling 20% of all outpatient hospital discharges in the US) there were only a few hundred genital surgeries performed each year. (205 in 2012, 250 in 2013, 345 in 2014). This suggests that between 1000-2000 genital surgeries were performed across the whole of the US each. If the trans community in the US represents 1% of the US population this means we’d expect there to be in the region of 3 million people identifying as trans in the US. This means less than 0.1% of the trans community undergoes genital surgery each year supporting our conclusion that the vast majority of males who identify as women retain their penis."
fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Firstly, every embryo starts off female

No at conception each potential ebryo will be either male or female depending on whether XX or XY (presuming no DSD)

You are misrepresenting biology & embryo development.

I have a question!

How can you say you orgasm "in the same way as a... woman" when you can't have vaginal contractions, you can't have uterine contractions, even before surgery your genitals had only half the number of nerve endings that a woman's genitals have, and even the dopamine receptors in your brain are different from a woman's?

Follow up question: don't you think it's a bit presumptuous of you to imagine you know what a woman's experience of orgasm is like?

You can have orgasms, good for you. You can't have orgasms in the same way as a woman, and you certainly don't have the epistemic standpoint to claim that you do.

I know it's been over a year since the last post here, but there's a lot of misinformation posted. As a post-operative female I would like to respond. There is too much to clear up in one go, so I wil only address the main issues.

Firstly, every embryo starts off female, all of them start with a clitoris. If the embryo becomes male, then the clitoris grows and becomes a penis, so to call it a female penis is factually incorrect, in fact, every male has a an enlarged clitoris. The penis and clitoris are biological homologues. The labia minora form from the same skin that becomes the foreskin. All of the skin, glands and structures of the penis and scrotum have identical homologues in the vagina and vulva, which is what makes sex change possible.

Secondly, there are three main types of vaginoplasty: Penile Inversion, Colon and Skin Graft. Penile Inversion has no mucus membrane and so is not self cleaning. Colon and Skin Graft do have a mucus membrane and are self cleaning. I had Skin Graft vaginoplasty, which was taken from inside the scrotum and grown on a stent. The scrotal skin is a homologue of the vaginal lining, in that it secretes hormones and lubricants in the same way as a natal vagina. This vagina feels, looks and smells identical to a natal female. Neovagina's can also be grown from cells in a lab.

Thirdly, as someone with a grown neovagina, I can orgasm vaginally the same as any other woman and have the same g-spot sensation, as this is linked to the bulb of the clitoris touching the vaginal canal.

Lastly, SRS surgery is on the increase, not decrease. The majority of patients with gender dysphoria will seek and get surgery, the only limitation to this is money and the lack of available surgeons. The only people who truly decide against it are transgender people, who are comfortable with their body as it is.

I am happy to answer any other questions and may well address some of the other questions asked in this thread.

I can’t help but wonder what it looks like... I don’t want to google as I don’t want to see it. But I can’t help but imaging what it must look like. Even worse is imagining what a fake penis would look like. It must be ok though. I’m gross though for wondering I reckon.

I’ve enjoyed the thread. Reading Rachel’s posts have been quite refreshing and interesting.

I know, how is it fine to co-opt women’s experiences but not any other minority group?!? A male born person has NO idea what it feels like to have any female reproductive pain at all. Different pain, yes, comparable pain - who really knows?

Someone who's posts used to pop up on my facebook announced that their surgery was so painful it was the same as a lifetime of periods

I just thought 'nah, it is like the small prolapse repair I had after a lifetime of periods, 1 mc, 1singleton and twins, in that it hurts a lot and you need a catheter.......' bollox to that.

I thought the same, Bat.

Self-ID taken to the limit, perhaps?

Just incase anyone doesn't know this, in that article it states Rebekah has passed away unexpectedly. This is not true, apparently someone hacked her twitter to put a message about her dying...I personally suspect she did it herself as she is a huge attention seeker. But either way, she is not dead.

Around 10 in every 10 000 women die in childbirth or the six weeks afterwards. That is before you consider all the nearly fatal, or potentially fatal cases, or long term complications.

Maybe it’s more like having the speculum part of a smear test every day, but for a longer period of time? As a comparison, it doesn’t have quite the same drama

But you’re right, AB, it’s a mistake for me to try to compare something to an experience I’ve never had.

I’d have had plenty of sympathy if she’d just said it smarted like fuck, but all sympathy evaporated with the birth comparison.

Comparing something to an experience you have never had is incredibly stupid. I'm sure it's painful and distressing, but it really cannot be anything like giving birth. Presumably the word "dilation" is what has caused Rebekah to think of the comparison, except that Rebekah is clearly unaware that it's not your vagina that dilates during childbirth, it's your cervix!

So, according to Rebekah, “Everyday you have to do something called dilation for at least a year. That’s the most painful thing ever. It’s like having a baby every day.”

O RLY?

And you would know this how?

metro.co.uk/2018/01/12/rebekah-shelton-breaks-reveals-regretted-gender-reassignment-final-tv-appearance-7223384/

Someone posted this on another thread. Given how sore I felt after childbirth and stitches I tend to think this is more the reality after surgery for most.

The problem with that theory is, MaidOfStars society is being brainwashed and bullied into 'recognising' men as 'women'. You can even see it here, with mumsnet, a mainly female visitor site, telling us we have to go along with the lie that he/him is a she/her.

It's only a matter of time before the TRAs start screaming transphobe because there isn't enough research into female to male transplants.

Are you thinking of the great wall of vagina? (NSFW! - as if you couldn't guess that from the name...)

A further note on transplantation...

While there is even one single woman on a list for uterus transplant, not one man can possibly beat her suitability criteria.

If you do a transplant, you need as near a match of tissue type as you can get, then if it is all connected up properly and takes, you need to support the transplant from attack by the immune system. Can't see that working.

There are risks to balance, and if you are transplanting organs, the risks of not doing it are much higher

Yes, IW looked through a book of 10k vaginas and picked her fave one apparently. Because...thats how it works. Sure

Damn - I read a short paper by a surgeon who used a book - it is a famous one with pictures of vulvas with a picture of a shell on the front. He showed the 3 'favourites' and I think there were some pictures of results that didn't look quite like any of those 3 pictures, but I suppose it is what you see in those original pictures........

Can't for the life of me remember what it was. I will have to google, but it was on another account, so will have to go back to that.

Yes. Uterus implants into men won't be happening because a) gestating a baby requires an entire and functioning female body, not just a transplanted organ, and b) if it's ever possible to gestate a baby outside of a woman, it will be less dangerous to the foetus to gestate it in an artificial environment.

There is no way a functioning vagina will be implanted into a man soon.

Removed from a female nervous system, female hormonal system, woman's body, it's a tube of tissue. Which appears to be what most men think it is

As dd pointed out yesterday "I bet her designer vagina doesn't get thrush every time she's on antibiotics"

Additionally, all the medication that needs to be taken in order for the human body to not reject it... surely that in itself is at odds with growing a fetus?

It completely boggles my mind that people believe this gubbins.

I cannot see female-to-male uterus transplants any time soon, whatever the media say.

There’s no clinical need. There’s a high chance of failure. The transplanted organ is redundant.

No organ would be transplanted under the above conditions.

Maybe, but I highly doubt men will be able to receive female reproductive organs. Because you’d have to replace their pelvis, endocrine systems, whatever it is that makes the placenta grow etc etc. It’s not as simple as bunging in a uterus and ovaries, there would be no way for them to function, surely.

Disclaimer: not a doctor, but this is my basic understanding.