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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ok so someone educate me about neo vaginas **Title edited by MNHQ at the OP's request**

409 replies

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 04/01/2018 00:46

Because lot of people on twitter appear to think that women piss out of their vaginas.

So with that particular piece of 'advanced biology', what happens with a newly constructed vagina?

And er. maybe some will be disappointed with the plumbing?

OP posts:
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terryleather · 03/07/2019 20:38

Not for the first time I'm with Barracker

While realising I'm contributing to this, I agree with pps that this zombie thread should be left to die as its only use is to provide narcissistic supply.

DuMondeB · 03/07/2019 20:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ZebrasAreBras · 03/07/2019 20:38

Nobody who was born male, with a penis, can claim to know what the female orgasm is like.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/07/2019 20:36

I am a woman, a female, show some respect!

You stated in your first post that you are male Hmm (women don't have scrotal skin)

I might just throw this one in for good measure. It's a normal healthy female with XY chromosomes who gave birth to a daughter who also has XY chromosomes.

Again,

A very small minority of people have disorders of sexual development - these individuals have asked not to be co-opted by the trans movement and I think you should respect that.

JackyHolyoake · 03/07/2019 20:35

OK Lucy Amethyst.

Please explain how a human body that naturally develops for the biological function of sexual reproduction to produce the small gamete [sperm] can be surgically altered to produce a human body that develops for the biological function of sexual reproduction to produce the large gamete [ovum].

Thank you.

sakura184 · 03/07/2019 20:30

Can someone explain the man made clitoris to me. A clitoris has thousands of nerve endings and is the only organ in the human body designed solely for sexual pleasure. Anyway we know that doctors can't magic nerves out of nowhere so the neovag and it's attending clitoris don't have the raw materials necessary for a functioning clitoris. So how does it work?

Also as previously stated the female orgasm can be clitoris or vaginal or both and can also contract the womb

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 20:30

Barracker

*This forum is full of women, with female bodies. We know what we are.

We are not your mirror.

Show some respect.*

How rude!

I am a woman, a female, show some respect!

Hirsutefirs · 03/07/2019 20:28

“Hmmmm, maybe you should also learn up on the clitoris too, as there are species that do pee through it.”

There are species that genuinely transition from a maggot into a bluebottle. So what?

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 20:27

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

*All cells contain chromosomes. Including XX or XY. In 99% of cases all cells will be XX or all cells will be XY.

You are incorrect.*

The human cell is a homologue. As stated above, they both contain X. They Y is just a junk dna that determines sex at the time the SRY gene activates.

I might just throw this one in for good measure. It's a normal healthy female with XY chromosomes who gave birth to a daughter who also has XY chromosomes.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18000096

You can argue this until the end of time, but nothing is going to change science.

Barracker · 03/07/2019 20:26

LucyAmethyst whilst I hope you're happy with your own body, stop declaring it to be 'like a female' 'like yours' 'like a clitoris' or referencing females and OUR BODIES.

My body is nothing like yours.
I am the opposite sex to you.
My body is the opposite sex to yours.
Your surgery has not rendered MY body any more similar to yours than it is to any man's.
I will not stand for you pronouncing incorrectly on my own, female, body.
Say what you want about your own.

But don't use me or female bodies as your comparator. Don't reference us, because you are utterly wrong about OUR bodies, about which you apparently know nothing, other than what misogyny has taught you.

I'll be reporting any further posts of yours which I feel inaccurately represent, insult, or denigrate MY female body, or declare it an appropriate comparator with a male, surgically altered one.
You don't get to tell me what I am to make yourself feel that you are somehow like me.

This forum is full of women, with female bodies. We know what we are.

We are not your mirror.

Show some respect.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/07/2019 20:26

Well unfortunately it can, and it did! Maybe you should learn up on how nature also can turn a male into a female.

No. It really, really can't. And humans are not clownfish.

Hmmmm, maybe you should also learn up on the clitoris too, as there are species that do pee through it.

Just because something occurs in another species does not mean it is relevant to humans. How many humans photosynthesise for example?

Also, you are assuming that every woman who walks the planet doesn't have balls. Some have two testes, others one and one ovary, some guys have two ovaries, others one.

Women do not have testes. Men do not ovaries. A very small minority of people have disorders of sexual development - these individuals have asked not to be co-opted by the trans movement and I think you should respect that.

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 20:19

DpWm

You mean as a transwomen. No operation can turn a man into a female.

Well unfortunately it can, and it did! Maybe you should learn up on how nature also can turn a male into a female.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_change

No they have pee-though-it a penis. You can't pee through a clit and it doesn't come with a pair of balls.

Hmmmm, maybe you should also learn up on the clitoris too, as there are species that do pee through it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris

Also, you are assuming that every woman who walks the planet doesn't have balls. Some have two testes, others one and one ovary, some guys have two ovaries, others one. Again pointers to our biological homologue. You assume I am a man, but you know nothing about my situation or treatment, not a very good advertisement for feminism and equality.

sakura184 · 03/07/2019 20:12

The uterus can contract in an orgasm

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 20:11

JackyHolyoake

The female orgasm is nothing to do with the uterus.

We agree, maybe this was aimed at the person who asked me the question.

No surgically constructed peritoneal cavity, lined with the skin of a penis or colon or other part of the digestive system, is in any way equivalent with the muscular structure that is the birth canal aka the vagina.

Good, as mine was not constructed from the skin of a penis or any part of the digestive system. My pelvic floor musclular structure is identical to yours.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/07/2019 20:10

Cells are not male or female

All cells contain chromosomes. Including XX or XY. In 99% of cases all cells will be XX or all cells will be XY.

You are incorrect.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/07/2019 20:08

I should add, that the above is not my work. I have not attached the author's name as they have chosen to remove the piece.

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 20:07

SomeDyke

Cells are not male or female, they are homologues, they are controlled only by hormones, so your findings are somewhat incorrect.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 03/07/2019 20:07

This is also worth a read (apologies for the length but the original seems to have been removed)

On Being Defined by Your Vagina

So often, on a corner of the internet somewhere, a MtF who wants to share in female oppression complains that women should not be “defined by their vaginas.” They lament that women speak as though we are one big giant walking vagina and that we could and should just quit thinking about our oh so unimportant nether regions.

The mistake that men, and thus “trans women,” make, is assuming that having a vagina is analogous to having a dick.

Having a dick is no big deal. Sometimes you stick it in something and it feels good, and that’s the end of the significance of having a dick. Having a dick is like having an elbow. To men, it doesn’t make any more sense to be defined by your dick than it does to be defined by your elbow.

The ability to see your sexual organ as a mere body part is a male privilege. Men are uniquely able to disassociate from their sex organs, their sex, and reproduction. Men are uniquely able to see sex organs as unrelated to social standing, their safety or even their likelihood of raising a child. The fact that men can’t tell that having a vagina is not analagous to having a dick shows a tremendous lack of imagination — in other words, people who don’t have vaginas don’t know what it’s like to have them. Imagine that. It’s almost as if men aren’t good representatives for what being a woman is all about.

Males are able to imagine, and do imagine, that penises and vaginas are both things you might perform sex on or with and little more.

The fact that any male considers a “neovagina” to be even remotely similar to a vagina attests to that fact. The neovagina is nothing more than a sheath for a penis, and only a male person with male privilege thinks of a vagina as largely a dick holder.

It’s probably pretty hard for a male to imagine living with the responsibility of having a vagina. With the knowledge that if you’re not ever-vigiliant, 24/7 for the thirty years in which you are fertile, an entire human being might come out of your body and demand every resource you have or can acquire for the next twenty plus years. Yes, even infertile women, who generally don’t know they’re infertile until they try to have children. And yes, even sexually inactive women and lesbians, because rape exists and is common.

While men are failing to get their socks into the laundry hamper every week, most heterosexual women are remembering to take a pill on time every single day with life or death consequences if they fail. While men are skipping their physical for the third year in a row, women are scheduling and making it to the doctor’s visits that make acquiring that birth control possible. To say nothing of the tremendous responsibility a woman faces if she does conceive, carry, bear and raise a child.

Our vaginas bathe us in blood a quarter of the time, requiring our attention every hour, demanding of us care and laundry chores and expense of which males cannot dream. For many of us, endometriosis and fibroids and hemorrhaging and miscarriages and abortions and ablations and D&Cs and PCOS and UTIs and vulvodynia and vagismus and yeast infections and menopause are a concern.

What concerns do male reproductive organs bring? Cancer, which also happens to female reproductive organs, and everyone’s non-reproductive organs.

And because rape exists and is common, and largely happens to women, and has far greater consequences for female victims than for male victims, our vaginas limit our movement through the world. There are places and situations and hours of the evening in which we simply don’t go, or we watch our back and don’t have any fun when we do go, because those places and situations and hours of the evening are full of people who want to hurt us. They want to hurt us because we have vaginas. If they wanted to hurt us because we wear lipstick, then believe me, we’d sometimes wipe the lipstick off and get out there and enjoy all the sights and sounds that the world has to offer, any time of day or night. It’s easy for someone — a male — to imagine that oppression is about wearing lipstick, because wearing lipstick is the only part of “being a woman” he has experience with. And males hate to feel left out.

And then there’s all that other stuff. The being told we’re stupid and bad at math. The war against our health needs. The pathologizing of our personalities. The unequal pay and impaired access to certain clubs and careers and political positions. Our absence as characters in books and movies. The denial of ourselves as fully human.

The denial of our sexuality except in relation to whether it benefits men. The rigged system that punishes us no matter how we use our vaginas sexually, whether a little (prude), a lot (slut), or never (spinster). The ubiquitous and enthusiastic portrayal of our abuse, and the sexualization of it, in advertisements, in television shows, in porn. These are things that happen to people with vaginas. When we try to forget about them, someone reminds us that they make us vulnerable, that they make us lesser, that they make us unclean, that they make us stupid.

Oppression isn’t tied to male bodies.

Oppression is tied to female bodies. It’s no wonder that males who can opt in or out of oppression don’t understand what it’s like to live in an oppressed body.

Even if we could quit thinking about our vaginas, other people, especially men, would continue to remind us, with every move we make, that we have them.

For men, the significance of a vagina lies in its use for fucking. For women, its role in fucking is the least of its significance.

DpWm · 03/07/2019 20:04

As a post-operative female I would like to respond
Hmm
You mean as a transwomen. No operation can turn a man into a female.

In fact, every male has a an enlarged clitoris
No they have pee-though-it a penis. You can't pee through a clit and it doesn't come with a pair of balls.

Good grief.
But sorry yes let's not resurrect the zombie

JackyHolyoake · 03/07/2019 20:03

Oh dear!

On your first point, if you had a full abdominal hysterectomy, would you stop having orgasms? If you were born without a uterus, would you stop having orgasms? Of course not.

The female orgasm is nothing to do with the uterus.

No surgically constructed peritoneal cavity, lined with the skin of a penis or colon or other part of the digestive system, is in any way equivalent with the muscular structure that is the birth canal aka the vagina.

sakura184 · 03/07/2019 19:58

A feminist takedown of the neovagina and how it's not an organ attached to other organs like an actual vagina but is instead a cavity designed for the accommodation of a penis ( which is what the mysoginystic medical profession regard a vagina to be)

www.google.com/amp/s/factcheckme.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/sorry-sex-pos-transwomen/amp/

FermatsTheorem · 03/07/2019 19:55

ZOMBIE ALERT!

May I suggest that we just quietly let this attempt to revive an old thread and use it to shamelessly appropriate women's lived experience just die the death and slide down the list of active threads?

SomeDyke · 03/07/2019 19:52

Neovagina's can also be grown from cells in a lab.

Yep, but only for those persons who are actually female hence have the existing tissues and genes to do the job.

institutions.newscientist.com/article/dn25399-engineered-vaginas-grown-in-women-for-the-first-time/

They're not 'neovaginas' in this case. But hey, nice appropriation of the experience of females with MRKH.

(arse/elbow, CHECK, penis/clitoris, CHECK, we can tell the difference!)

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 19:49

R0wantrees

You are referring to trans women, which encompasses a wide array of different sub categories, including transvestites, cross dressers, non-binary and transgender.

I am talking about transsexuals.

LucyAmethyst · 03/07/2019 19:47

R0wantrees

You have somewhat answered your own question, the X in each chromosome is female, the Y is just a deterorating junk chromosome which could allow the embryo to develop into a male, but that's not always the case.

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