Mermaids

@terrylene The people who call it the trans cult aren't far wrong. That is creepy behaviour.

Yes, that Helen person from mermaids, asking others on Twitter to negatively review that book (which they duly did). Surely that's illegal in some sense?

She's also really stupid with regards her use of social media. (I'm not going to say how as I don't want to be accused of doxxing). If that's how she protects her own privacy, I would wonder about the security of the information that Mermaids holds.

Mermaids are appalling. You'd think after the Kids Company debacle public bodies would be a bit more careful about who they give their backing to.

Datun makes an excellent point about not using suicide as leverage and the danger of social media contagion. The fact that Mermaids are so deliberately flouting the Samaritans guidance is major cause for concern. (Along with all the other shit they peddle.)

Oh - and their marketing person has been urging people online to pile in and dis Heather Brunskell Evans book on Amazon without reading it. If this is the sort of thing they are prepared to do in public, then goodness knows how it is run behind closed doors.

I think that there needs to be

a. More openness from Mermaids about their methods

b. More research into their methods

Before money is piled in and they are quoted everywhere as experts in the field. Even NAS quotes them .

But this is not happening. It is an accident waiting to happen.

No one knows down the line what will happen. Transing young people may look positive to some people at first sight, but what happens when they are older 5 years, 10 years down the line when life goals change. We know that the highest suicide rate is in mid-life men so what happens transgirls when they reach midlife?

Where is the research?

I genuinely believe that one day Mermaids are going to be embroiled in a scandal that will dwarf the Kids Company debacle. Mermaid has to be the most unethical lobby group I have ever encountered. Even parents who support early medical intervention should stay well away from them.

Totally agree.

I think it's becoming clear that there is overlap between trans-identifying children and children with severe distress from verifiable causes such as sexual abuse, autism, mental health difficulties or sexual identity.

YY. Not that the likes of Mermaids will admit that. They are utterly shit.

I think it's becoming clear that there is overlap between trans-identifying children and children with severe distress from verifiable causes such as sexual abuse, autism, mental health difficulties or sexual identity.

As I understand it, it's not yet clear where the causes lie, and whether distress leads a child both to identify as trans and to feel suicidal. It's also unclear in what circumstances full, partial or complete lack of transition is the best option for long-term mental health.

I'm worried that the general tiptoeing around the subject and banning of all criticism will make this impossible to research.

(Please note use of the term persons)

Not sure what you're alluding to here luner - perhaps you misunderstood the graph - it doesn't mean 'neither male nor female', it means males + females.

AL I'm sorry** if this is a silly question. What is the definition of "persons" vs the binary genders?

Persons is everyone.

15 - 19 yrs of age - persons 5.3%, male 7.5%, females 2.9%

(7.5 + 2.9)/2 = 5.2 (given rounding errors, this is the 5.3 persons figure)

So it's just 'males' and 'females' that are to be defined here, and on that, I don't know, although as these are youths/children none of them would have had a GRC.

49% of trans youth reported attempting suicide. It is disheartening that people are reluctant to believe this.

I looked at your link, but I can't find the actual study. Can you post it?

Mermaids are responsible for disseminating the figure of 41 percent (I don't know where 49 has come from). But that figure was taken from a total of 27 people. A statistically insignificant example.

The thing that is make people very suspicious is that they implied it was taken from a sample of 2000. Deliberately manipulating the figures. But in fact it was only 27.

Why would anyone distort the suicide figures?

Samaritans are very clear about the way to handle suicide. To play it down. To not use it as any kind of leverage.

They are only too well aware of the social contagion that is prevalent on social media.

Mermaids go out of their way to ignore this advice in an effort to promote their agenda.

My question is why?

I think you’d probably have had similar, if not higher, figures if all the teens who identified as emos or goths 10 years ago had been surveyed.

" But I will say that the rates of suicidal ideation are similar for LGB kids (without the T), for bullied kids, for kids with other forms of dysphoria such as anorexia."

Oh I am very much aware of that. I have also been hugely concerned by the rise of suicide rates in girls.

But the post was about suicide in trans youth. It isn't Mermaids who are weaponising the situation.

Luner - unsure why you'd post overall stats? We all know that our kids are living in a period of stressors - trans identification included - so acute that youth suicide is on the rise. It's a terrible state of affairs.

I won't get into the methodology of the figure that Stonewall loves to quote since it has been debunked multiple times and because it seems tasteless. But I will say that the rates of suicidal ideation are similar for LGB kids (without the T), for bullied kids, for kids with other forms of dysphoria such as anorexia. Kids all over are feeling under such pressure that they have suicidal thoughts. It happened to my own son in his first year at university. Thank heavens he is ok now.

The problem with Mermaids is that they associate these alarming figures with their lobbying for affirmation only clinicial protocols - the "better a trans kid than a dead kid" thing, which has no basis in research. That's what people are objecting to.

I genuinely believe that one day Mermaids are going to be embroiled in a scandal that will dwarf the Kids Company debacle. Mermaid has to be the most unethical lobby group I have ever encountered. Even parents who support early medical intervention should stay well away from them.

I am so so sorry to hear of that. Sending love and solidarity.

No idea where the asterisks came from!

AL I'm sorry** if this is a silly question. What is the definition of "persons" vs the binary genders? Is it meaning trans or is it meaning gender non-identifying? It's horrible to discuss this in the context of what the actual figures represent, but I'm not clear on what these definitions mean in that context. Are "females" people born into a female body and gender identifying as such, for example? Or is it by sex alone or gender alone?

First: whilst the statistics are not yet publically available for 2017 in terms of confirmed suicides, (and therefore in terms of dealing in fact, I shall refrain from comment), but the statistics for 2016 are publically available.

In 2016:

10 -14 yrs of age - persons 0.1%, male 0.2%
15 - 19 yrs of age - persons 5.3%, male 7.5%, females 2.9%
(Please note use of the term persons)

You can that for yourselves here:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2016registrations#suicides-in-the-uk-by-age

Stonewall released their 'School Report' last year, which is the result of the study they commissioned in 2016 into our LGBTQ youth, and their experience of life at school.

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/the_school_report_2017.pdf

49% of trans youth reported attempting suicide. It is disheartening that people are reluctant to believe this.

Of course Mermaids are going to say nothing more than they have said. There are grieving families involved, whether you believe there are, or not.

Mermaids are referenced for “further information and support” in every document for schools about transgender issues that I’ve ever seen

MomToWedThorFriday

I'm terribly sorry to hear that. How devastating.

There is always this dreadful conflict. Trying to stop pressure groups manipulating suicide statistics, whilst desperately not wanting to minimise suicide.

And yes, mermaids are shit.

We have had several ex mermaids members on here all saying the same. The 'our way or the highway' narrative seems very damaging.

Mom

MomToWedThorFriday - if you don't mind my asking, was Mermaids involved with your friend's child?

1. You haven’t heard about my friends son, but he definitely existed, identified as trans and completed suicide.

2. Mermaids are shit.

I don't doubt that trans identification can be at the root of devastating mental ill health in children, including suicidal ideation right up to, God forbid, actual suicide. As do many other issues in and around adolescence. Suicidal ideation is at an all-time high in young people, particularly girls.

That doesn't mean it's ok for Mermaids to weaponise children's trauma in dangerous ways that spread contagion and contravene Samaritans guidelines.

This tweet begs two questions in me:

1. why were these four recent suicides not reported? I don't believe that we would not have heard about them.

2. is the help Mermaids offers not actually helping? Perhaps there are better ways to support GNC kids than rushing them into affirmation and medication?

No, Datun. A different lad - son of a friend.