Hampstead Heath Women's Pond

JumpedOverTheMoon

What about women from other cultures than your that are prohibited from swimming with biological men?

Its just not good enough for women to to complain that feminism is white and middle class, and to call themselves intersectional feminists, and at the same time be so exclusive.

Telling women to shut up and stay at home is the precise opposite of what feminists have spent the last 100 years doing.

Just a question so don't lynch me... but surely this also means it works in reverse? That female to male transistioning people are allowed to use the male pool... therefore were not losing a pool but also gaining a pool? Secondly... if either mtf or ftm trans people want to use pools... who is going to stand and check what their DNA says? I could have been using pools with trans people for years and not known about it and still lived to tell the tale. I don't like getting changed in front of ANYONE, male or female, but I don't insist on my own locked cubicle everywhere I go... incidentally I do think this is what should happen, and with toilets too but that's by the by.
The point of the equality act (law so don't lynch me personally I'm not saying I agree) is that a trans female for all intents and purposes are female and can't be discriminated against and is on the same level as the other 9 characteristics. Including race. We would never dream nowadays of saying I'm not sharing a pool with someone based on their race, the law also means you can't do this for whatever trans status someone might be.
I'm going there to swim not check out what genitals people have.

I don't get it. (And it may be starting to get to me to the point I need a break, admittedly.)

Why not just abandon ALL sex segregation, because there's no longer any need for it, everyone has to be fine with any biology because it doesn't matter any more? What is the point or logic of maintaining the illusion of segregation?

No one's doing any fucking education brainwashing on me thanks.

'You may need to do some education work with other centre users who may be concerned when sharing a space with a trans person, especially if a trans customer looks to have different physical characteristics to the gender they are identifying with i.e. a male to female trans customer who has not had top or bottom surgery may still look like a male to others,'

Because they do look like a bloody male, they are biologically male and the gender they identify with does not make it any easier on the privacy, dignity or decency for women suddenly expected to abandon all socialisation and get their kit off around men. Despite that privacy, dignity and decency being written into all other legislation. So 'education' means basically 'shut up, you can't say that' and 'either get over your discomfort or leave this space'.

Stop the fucking planet, I want to get off. The sheer incoherence of it all is infuriating.

'it is tempting to assume someone’s gender simply by their appearance, it’s important to try to avoid doing so and to be aware of the needs of genuinely transgender women.'

But the problem is not with assuming their gender, surely? The problem is with identifying their sex. Its a sex rather than gender segregated area.
Also: genuinely transgender women? that reads as though they know there will be chancers. But how can we tell the difference? so we have to wait for our boundaries to be violated in some way before we complain?

If you need a men-only swim session or gym session, SaleorBuoy, ask at your local pool or gym and see if there's any demand for it.

I am not opposed to women wanting their own space especially when there are other swimming options available. It amuses me somewhat though that Scouting, a preserve for males had to accept females, many male only golf clubs to accept women members and most gyms and swimming pools don't have men only sessions although women only sessions are prevalent. Both sexes/genders like to have time on their own just seems there's a little imbalance to me.

The scouts decided to accept girls because they were struggling to recruit enough boys to keep going, so opened up to girls.

Male only spaces like golf clubs/Masons that sort of thing excluded women very much on the basis that they weren't 'worthy' enough to join in with the big boys.

Things like women only swim sessions, gym sessions, changing areas etc stem from the fact that because of the position of males and females in our society, many women feel more comfortable changing, swimming and exercising with other women. Most men tend to not give as much of a shit because they are already in the position of power in these situations.

Maybe there is an imbalance one way, but it comes about because of the general massive imbalance the other way.

It amuses me somewhat though that Scouting, a preserve for males had to accept females because not enough boys wanted to be scouts so they needed the girls to keep scouting going

There. Fixed that for you, you can thank me any time.

There's a pond for men specifically at Hampstead Heath.

I am not opposed to women wanting their own space especially when there are other swimming options available. It amuses me somewhat though that Scouting, a preserve for males had to accept females, many male only golf clubs to accept women members and most gyms and swimming pools don't have men only sessions although women only sessions are prevalent.
Both sexes/genders like to have time on their own just seems there's a little imbalance to me.

Gay men who are "women trapped in men's bodies" I meant! Christ the language is a head fuck

We can put public pressure on organisations to use the existing exemptions. Most people aren't aware how far this has gone. They think it's poor gay men trapped in women's bodies. Raise awareness and encourage everyone to write letters to their councils, hospitals, MPs etc.

I know. I am completely aware of the law on this point having been schooled once by a particularly obnoxious trans activist and have tried to make the point before that defeating self ID won't change that they already have rights to enter women's spaces. However there are exemptions and a lot of the stuff around safeguarding etc hasn't been thought through. The law was not intended to accommodate the "gender fluid" or cross dressing men.

The b&b case the owners tried arguing that as a Christian couple being made to allow gay couples into their own home interfered with their rights. But case didn't go in their favour.

There haven't been many test cases. What happens with one case could affect the whole issue. It clashes with other groups' rights. And there are exemptions in the EA where exclusions are possible as a proportionate response to a legitimate aim. A lot of this depends on public perception.

Remember the gay couple who sued over been turned away from a b&b? So yes if people thinking about gender reassignment are protected just as much as a gay person I do think someone will be champing at the bit to sue.

Well it's online learning so no question opportunities. But I'd probably just be accused of making stereotypical assumptions that a woman would be harrassed by a trans person.

worried about being sued if they turn men away

I hear this, and I wonder how realistic that expectation is (well, in general - TAs are well funded and pushy, so probably more likely than usual) - are people going around suing people that much in the UK?

Viva, have you asked them how this works alongside the rights of the female sex to have dignity, respect and protection?

Right am currently doing diversity e training at work. According to the programme the equality act protects gender reassignment individuals and that for the purpose of the act an individual will be counted if they're planning gender reassignment in the future. They don't have to have started the process.

So this means any man can enter any woman's space and be legally supported as long as he says he's thinking about changing gender in the future?

If this is right then the womens pond committee are probably worried about being sued if they turn men away.

www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/convicted-sex-offender-found-living-with-teenage-girl-157917/

Don’t know how to link, but this Is really worrying, and validates our issues.

I thought I’d like the openness and it was nice as a novelty but I missed the trees and the kingfishers and the dragonflies etc etc - you still get the cormorants and herons but I think it’s too open for as much wildlife. Weirdly it also smells different! Not worse, just different!

Thanks witchmountain. I suppose 'better' is subjective. It is much bigger. I like a nice open space to swim in

I do think that the situation can't be two mixed ponds and one for just men. So taking the protest to the men's pond seems logical to me.