Feminist Fightback

Sorry- my post about lass was in response to Lass talking about having no personal experience of gender stereotyping or of women and girls being held back in employment or education by their sex. This thread has several different themes running concurrently......

Never been my experience. It's not a class thing. I'm working class, so many, if not most, of my IRL feminist sisters (all of whom are queer and trans inclusive). Most of my queer and trans friends are working class, and all of my daughters friends are too.

Feminists who aren't queer and trans inclusive also come from across the class spectrum. There are plenty of platformed trans exclusive feminists who are screamingly middle class.

MN itself was hardly a working class endeavour either, was it?

I wonder whether it's to some extent a class thing? From my observation the aspirations of well educated middle class girls are much closer to the aspirations of their middle class male peers than those of working class girls are to their male peers. Ovaerved anecdotal only- I can't show evidence.

What era or eras are you talking about? I don't recognise this as a common experience of my and my contemporaries experience of girlhood in the 70s; I don't recognise it in the experiences of my friends and relatives daughters or the many, many young women I have mentored as trainees over the years.

I was born mid-80's, and was a teen during the 90's/early 2000's. I heard plenty about what girls couldn't do, and what girls should do.

I have kids now who are hearing the same shit.

I don’t know how it’s possible to be gender critical and not radical. Isn’t gender part of the structure of our society that keeps all of us in our own boxes and conforming to expected roles? Abolition of gender has to come from re-working societal views - starting again?

"Haven’t posted much on the Feminism threads, but I’m just coming to terms with peak-transing out of liberal feminism into the radical."
Delighted to welcome a baby radical But I feel honour bound to tell you that you can be a liberal feminist and gender critical. But it's much more fun over here with the radicals.

Yep, I’m another newcomer who loves the discussions on here and the patience and intelligence and empathy of most of the posters.

Haven’t posted much on the Feminism threads, but I’m just coming to terms with peak-transing out of liberal feminism into the radical.

Radical feminism is the sort of feminism that thinks that there needs to be structural change for equality to happen- it can’t “start from here”.........

What would you define as radical feminism?

Be very wary of what people call radical feminism on here-it's often nothing of the sort.

Yy I agree, I’m a relative beginner in radical feminism and the history of feminism and I’m currently getting to know my own ideas - so appreciate not being ripped apart here (unlike in AIBU right now )

I appreciate the robust, well reasoned discussion on here. Haven't found it unwelcoming at all, quite the opposite. In fact I sometimes come here specifically for the friendly matter of fact common sense after a wander through the madness that is AIBU.

I lurk on fwr a lot, I post rarely but certainly have never felt not listened to.

I really wish I felt that there was a radical feminist majority on FWR- it would be a truly glorious place.

However, I think the liberals hold sway.

Really edna? I've been here for ages now, seen a lot of people start posting and I think we have a good range of views. I didn't feel I had to earn the right to be listened to. So many people name change it's hard to keep up.
I do think however we have a sharp focus on issues affecting women, but that's only to be expected from a feminism board Surely?

I suppose it was like now, lass, in that some parents do their best to avoid stereotypes and let their little boy wear princess dresses or their girl play with cars, and some are seriously against it.

I don't know what the exact % split is now - or what it would have been then - but I imagine both exist/ed at both times.

(I in the 80s was quite "gender-free" toy wise, my favourite toy was my train set, but clothes were a different matter. There were scruffy casual clothes, but lots of frilly dresses. By the 90s when my youngest sister was born, toys had become a lot pinker in just a few years)

@LassWiTheDelicateAir I might be an anomaly(doubt it) but it was my experience growing up and as a teen, but I am glad others haven't had the same experience. It wasn't pretty or easy.

And I suppose that the point of the FWR boards is that they are about feminism, which is not a sitting in a circle holding hands singing kum by yah sort of movement, but an angry, fierce, political thing, which sees unfairness and inequality and struggles against it.

"and little in the way of female solidarity unless or until you have demonstrated your agreement with a fairly narrow set of beliefs ('pure' radical feminism?"

What sort of beliefs do you mean? It seems to me that there is very little consensus on here at all-and radical feminists are actually in a minority!

every umbrage addict

EnthusiasticEdna
Sometimes I feel a bit as if I've unexpectedly been moved into the top set and am struggling to keep up
I suppose we're all so different in experience, knowledge, life skills etc. I am constantly in awe of those posters who have a deep intellectual analysis of feminism and post such clear fluent and thoughtful posts.
I do see a lot of humour here but I suspect that it is the nature of the subject matter that means it's not a 'fluffy welcoming ' board but is more edgy?

It was still like that in the seventies. Not as bad as the fifties, but srsly! Baby steps.

Because women and children were absolutely fair game in the 70s. Watch any TV from the period, it's right there

I was a teenager from 1972 to 1978. I agree what you say about television but that wasn't my point. I was referring to the "women are told they can't..." anecdotes. I don't recall the 70s being like that - quite the opposite.

I'm new here and you lot a like a pack of fucking wolves.
I'm new here too and you, alunarexplorer, are like every umbrage addict I have ever met on every Feminist blog EVAH!

'Beliefs' are irrelevant.
An ability to be rational, use logic, fairness, honesty and integrity are what matter if one wishes to influence most posters here.
In fact, if someone wants to invoke beliefs, as in faith based, factually unsupported myths, they are going to find it difficult to persuade others here.

When you say "until you have demonstrated your agreement with a fairly narrow set of beliefs ('pure' radical feminism?)", I wonder what you mean.

I think people tend to be pretty fact and evidence based here, and very open to challenge.

What are these beliefs you reference here?