Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

I'll just pipe up here to note that using gendered insults ('handmaidens'? really?) to describe a group of other women whose views you don't agree with, doesn't really serve any good purpose does it?

Do you think feminists should support all women, no matter that their choices and how detrimental those choices are to other women?

Thanks for explaining feminist terms to us, ALunarExplorer.

Victim blaming is wrong period.

If a woman were to engage in conversation around a rape or assault victim that focussed on the victims behaviour, the terms more generally used are 'rape apologism' 'rape myths' or 'victim blaming'.

Not handmaiden.

Victim blaming is wrong period.

If a woman were to engage in conversation around a rape or assault victim that focussed on the victims behaviour, the terms more generally used are 'rape apologism' 'rape myths' or 'victim blaming'.

Not handmaiden.

Sorry... just catching up - yes using the term 'handmaiden' would be a very nasty as an insult to a bi woman for having sex/relationships with men. I've not heard lesbians use it in that context - but doesn't mean it isn't ever done.

ALunarExplorer
You are most welcome to hang out on the feminist boards. I am a bit concerned that you perceive attacks where none were intended.

Please re-read the thread now that it has been explained the way handmaiden was used. I am sure you will se that you overreacted somewhat....on a thread where we are talking about how we can move away from internecine fighting to supporting women more!

*..saying is that [it happens]...

sorry. I am really bad at spotting typo's..

Ah.

That's a bit closer to an answer.

So what you are saying is that if she subscribes to (or is assumed to subscribe to) a particular feminist theory and praxis; which itself is based on assumptions about motivation - a theory which itself is judged through a lens of those ascribed and assumed motivations.

I've probably been so swamped recently that I may have missed something - we do still care about a woman's autonomy don't we?

I am with you Bert I just piped up again because I was the original one who brought up 'handmaidens'.

Sorry didn't mean to plop.
A handmaiden is what she is. A woman that assists patriarchal misogynists upholding patriarchy and misogyny - at the expense of all women including her unwitting self.

I think 'handmaiden' is a pretty gentle term for a female antifeminist isn't it? Some people don't like it because everyone else can see they are a turkey voting for Christmas but them. They don't like it being pointed out that they have been duped- which is fair enough. It is embarrassing being a mug.

Engage with what? Explaining why my daughter was belittled?

I'll admit to be a protective mother, but that is not the same as not engaging.

Had I said that she was being called a gendered term by another man, would there have been questions about my daughters behaviour?

I am trying to understand exactly why it happens - and since the term came up in conversation I thought I would try and find out what the precise motivations for using the term were.

I simply don't understand why my peers feel the need to justify this. I really don't.

But the worst thing you can accuse me of is being an protective mother. If that seems like bad faith, because I am just asking exactly what the parameters for the use of the term are: and that is not what is being addressed, then I really don't know what else to tell you.

ALunerExplorer

The reason people are asking is that it is hard to imagine why even the stroppiest of radfems - or anyone else, for that matter - would use the term "handmaiden" as a homophobic slur. So, if your daughter has been called that, it would probably be for another reason than that she is bi.

Here's a common example: liberal feminists believe the transwomen are women mantra and feel radical feminists are awful for not considering TW as part of feminism. They use the slur TERF to denigrate them for this.

Conversely, radical feminists believe feminism should aim to liberate females from male supremacy aka patriarchy, and that liberal feminists debase feminism and uphold patriarchy by including males (transwomen) in their analysis. They use the slur handmaiden to denigrate them for this.

HTH.

One person's victim blaming is another person's genuine criticism of a person's behaviour. Who knows which, since you refuse to engage. I'm not sure what the point in you mentioning it was tbh.

Based on your interactions, I'm not convinced you are here with a sincere motive at all.

"I don't generally use slurs and, since I regard TERF as a slur, wouldn't use handmaiden either. I take it to be pejorative referring to women who apply a feminist label to things that actually uphold patriarchy rather than challenge it. "

Well, that's the closest thing I have had to answer, but here is my problem:

these things that are accused of 'upholding the patriarchy'?

What are they?

I am so glad you have had that positive experience. Really.

But if you'll forgive me, that's not relevant.

So why is the only response that I have had to this been (since it came up) been 'perhaps it was something that your daughter did'/'what did your do daughter do'.

Frankly I though we would at least all be well enough versed in victim blaming to remember that the person being belittled is not responsible for the other persons choice to engage in such behaviour.

(Lurker and very occasional poster here, hello!)
This issue of feminism being derailed by the TERF-wars is really important to me. I'm absolutely committed to the gender critical analysis, but I do think there's a tendency for feminists to get sucked into internecine fighting over this issue (and prostitution and porn too, to a lesser extent). That's one of the things that makes me angriest. We're fighting so hard just to stop rapists from being transferred to women's prisons (I mean for goodness sake!!!) we don't have the time to spend on other campaigning, AND alliances and friendships between feminists are being destroyed. I don't know what the answer is. Of course gender critical feminists have to resist this, but I wish it wasn't so all-consuming. One thing I try hard to do is not see other women as 'the enemy' - I know a lot of women who are very supportive of trans activists, and they're all motivated by ignorance, not malice. I try (and sometimes fail...) to be generous spirited and avoid terms like 'handmaiden' which can be alienating. A friend of mine once expressed it as "be the radical feminist you wish you'd met before you became a radical feminist" and I love that!

Why would a woman get called a 'handmaiden' for being bisexual?

ALunerExplorer - I don't generally use slurs and, since I regard TERF as a slur, wouldn't use handmaiden either. I take it to be pejorative referring to women who apply a feminist label to things that actually uphold patriarchy rather than challenge it. Something similar to, say, fauxcialist, used for someone who purports to be left wing but supports such things as free market economics.

And yes, Lang's post.

In quite a few years of being a grown up - and knowing some "hardcore" feminists - I've never been called a handmaiden for being bi, not even for being married to a man (shock, horror!). I don't doubt your DD, I'm just wondering if there is more to that? And who it was saying it too?

Look, if you are simply going to avoid my question then at least have the decency to say so.

Exactly what 'behaviour' defines a 'handmaiden' to you?

What are your terms for this 'collusion'?

By what references, examples, sources and argument do you justify the use of the term?