Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

Back to the OP, yes feminism (and general progress in a way) has been derailed somewhat by the whole trans debate, at a time when funding is being cut for DV refuges, reproductive rights are under attack and cuts are hitting women disproportionately.

If i were a conspiracy theorist ....

Iirc most Romans were bisexual. Or was that Greeks?

Oh gosh Guardian, I hope you didn't interpret my post as attempted tone-policing! Use whatever you like and I'll fight to the death your right to do so (or something like that) - I was just saying why I'd started tone-policing myself

Bisexual romans?

I'm full of the cold and hopped up on NightNurse, but has this thread gone weird or what?

That was the most bizarre attempt at derailing I've ever seen.
Or a spectacular misunderstanding. Hmmm.

It's just a in joke, aluner. Some very goady posters a few days ago concluded their runs of posting by saying they had to go and make or ice a cake. That's all. It's just a coincidence that you've now said it. Enjoy your baking!

luner hope the cake is going well

How nice.

My disability means I can't do both.

You're right about the cake making! How odd. I'm tempted to over think it and come up with all sorts of wild conclusions about the sub text

And I am trying to understand why a slur is wrong in one context, but okay in another. Why its wrong if the woman is bi, but justifiable otherwise. Or why its okay to defend using it, but not okay to question its use.

And why mentioning baking cakes is now apparently weird too, instead of a way of trying to nicely and without rancour end a conversation.

Goodnight.

I understand a handmaiden to be shorthand for a woman who takes the patriarchal position with regards to a particular issue.
For example a woman who argued that men are also raped by women and report it less than women because of the stigma in a conversation about rape.
Or a woman who says she likes being catcalled, it's complimentary.

It is pejorative and I don't use it. To be fair I've only seen it used on here when posters are being really annoying.

Anyhow maybe we can get back to the topic at hand?

and are quite derogatory about men in general

Well by that definition it would include most of the posters on FWR. It is as useful as "transphobe" - it means something the accuser doesn't approve of.

X post sleigh

These swirling flingers of accusation certainly have a lot of cakes to make and decorate don't they?

Making cakes appears to be a favourite task of derailers on this board.

I'd rather call a spade a spade and a handmaiden a handmaiden.

It has a particular meaning - perfect for the meaning I first used it. I think people only object because at some point they have been called out for assisting antifeminist men at some point.

I don't think I need to pay respect to fictional characters, but I do try to be specific when saying 'kool aid' because real people died in tragic circumstances.

However the language police can do one afaic - I have even been told I shouldn't use the word 'patriarchy' before because 'it sounds like i'm anti men'! I am not going to refrain from language to describe the oppressor or his assistants thank you very much.

And my point was that the term is derogatory and why would I need to explain those times when it has been used, since it is derogatory. I will own that I had assumed that rather fewer people than I was hoping, have a problem with it, so if I have been reticent to provide any further context than I already have, it is not because I am trying to be obtuse.

And I had already cited the one occasion where it was used because she is bi. Of course its outrageous. But it apparently isn't when used against her in other contexts.

So if I don't elucidate further on those other contexts, its because I can already tell (by the justifications of the use of the word) that I would not feel safe in disclosing that information.

I appreciate that I find that, in itself, difficult to comprehend. I am sure that comes across in my tone.

I have a birthday cake to make. I wish you a good evening.

I disagree. I think it is a very useful term to describe the "oh, men can't see dirt" "oh, bless them, they never really grow up""he'll be more interested in helping with the baby when she's older"

Yes and many “handmaiden” opinions tend to see men as kids, and are quite derogatory about men in general. But the end result is usually that women have to work harder to facilitate them.

ALunerExplorer

I think the reason you were asked about the circumstances was not to blame your DD in any way but to provide context as it’s inconceivable to anyone here that she would be seen as a handmaiden simply for being bi. And that if she were the women calling her a handmaiden would most certainly not be doing it from a real understanding of feminism or what a handmaiden is.

Being a handmaiden also isn’t necessarily a conscious thing because dislike of women is so prevalent it feels quite natural going along with the flow of society. To give an example some women I know often speak disparagingly of girls in general, assuming that they are bitches and manipulative and when they do so they expect nods and agreement from the others they are talking to because it’s such a mainstream view. This upholds a patriarchal and traditional view of women being more naturally deceitful than men and is something I would describe as handmaiden behaviour.

I think that is true on MN and a large section of Twitter. Outside of that the women’s groups I’m involved in (Labour, breastfeeding groups etc.) are going ahead with their feminist activity without being affected by the trans movement debates. The Labour WASPI campaign for example. And we can continue breastfeeding support campaigns whether we describe them as ‘for people who breastfeed’ or not. For many, many feminist issues the obsessions on here are irrelevant.