Does anyone feel the need to reclaim femnism.....?

Of course calling another woman a handmaiden can be misogynistic if all it is intended is to be a put down.

Even when behaviour could legitimately be described as such, such as the example RebelRogue gave

One example that springs to mind that always came up on a different forum is "she's 14/15 she knows what she's doing" coupled with examples of "awful" sexual behaviour of such 14/15 yos when discussing a man having sex with a child.

do you think it makes anyone think again and reassess their attitude?

thebewilderness, I know what misogyny means.

To coin or use a gendered insult against women for behaviour that is not gendered is a display of contempt for women. The use of "slut" for example. And the use of Handmaiden.

Being a woman is a biological reality. Colluding with, enabling and excusing misogynistic behaviour is not gender specific it is done by women and men. Coining a gendered insult for use against women doing the same as men is misogynistic.

Yes, I see you naturally are that obtuse. Don't worry, I call men out for their misogyny all the time! I just call them different names because it's in a different context.

It is good to me to see sometimes how very differently we hear things.
It never really gets sorted but we can understand the misunderstandings a bit better.

The dictionary definition of misogyny is dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women

My personal view is "handmaiden" gets used too often and is insulting. It is as useful as transphobe.

Way back on this thread someone said (I am paraphrasing) that a woman who thinks all housework etc is her responsibility to facilitate her husband's career can be described as a handmaiden. Whilst I do not use the term I disagree such a woman is a handmaiden. She is making a lifestyle choice which is not for me but unless this woman is in a position of power where she can influence social policy I think it has little impact on anyone other than herself. She might seek to influence her daughters but I would credit them with minds of their own.

On the other hand the Miley Cyruses and Nikci Minajs of this world seem to me to fit the definition perfectly. Rich, successful and powerful women choosing to collude with the objection of women's bodies to audiences of billions. And even if one were to buy the (weak) excuse that they had to go along with this to establish their careers (which I don't) they are both in a position to call the shots now. I still won't call them "handmaidens".

So I don't find it a useful term since "colluding with the patriarchy" means different things to different people.

Where will matters go? I think Scotland will race on with self-ID for gender status because (a) Westminster has put it on hold and the Scottish government will seize any chance to show how much more forward thinking and inclusive Holyrood is and (b) the Republic of Ireland already has this. (The SNP love comparing Scotland with ROI as a successful, small , independent state in the EU, except of course when the Irish tiger economy keels over)

The million women march seems a bit of a damp squib.

Men might finally get and understand the message that accessing porn on your workplace computer is wrong. Well obviously accessing it anywhere is wrong but how stupid to you have to be to use your employer's equipment.

Dione, that word misogyny does not mean what you think it means.

Being a woman is a biological reality. Colluding with, enabling and excusing misogynistic behaviour is not gender specific it is done by women and men. Coining a gendered insult for use against women doing the same as men is misogynistic.

Bert, do you consider women who choose to absent themselves from the work for conveinience and comfort and instead facilitate their husbands career by doing most/all the wifework, knowing that this negatively impacts women in the workplace "handmaidens"

Not biting. Not throwing it fish. Sitting here on my SAHM hands not biting.

May eat some more quiche. I put asparagus and goat's cheese in it because that's what I had to hand.

I suspect stuff will be a bit better following #metoo because many people are self serving wankers and will think twice about sexually harassing the new girl at work in case they end up shamed on social media. And I think some of the good guys have had their eyes opened a bit more. And perhaps we all realise that we can call it out more and teach our girls to call it out. So baby steps. Maybe.

Rebel, what you are talking about is "victim blaming". Again, like colluding, enabling and excusing misogyny, it is not a gender specific behaviour. So why single out women for the name calling?

Being a woman colluding, enabling and excusing misogyny which hurts other women is a gender specific behaviour. That's the whole point. Are you this obtuse naturally or do you have to work at it?

Bert, do you consider women who choose to absent themselves from the work for conveinience and comfort and instead facilitate their husbands career by doing most/all the wifework, knowing that this negatively impacts women in the workplace "handmaidens"?

Rebel, what you are talking about is "victim blaming". Again, like colluding, enabling and excusing misogyny, it is not a gender specific behaviour. So why single out women for the name calling?

I'm gonna nick rebel's post from another thread (hope that's okay, rebel?)...

"And I used to be a handmaiden grin(still have some leftovers) . I could not relate to females or the idea of what i was told they were ,so i was more than ready to defend the males,my tribe, the ones i related to and understood. In a very simplistic way, I thought like them, I acted like them sometimes but I wasn't x,y,z so they couldn't be either. I took the "hate" personally and if the argument wouldn't apply to me because i was was a girl,but not to them because they were boys , then it was stupid and irrelevant. Meh I grew up eventually."

I would never ever use the word "handmaiden" about a woman in a DV situation or under any kind of obvious physical or mental duress. I have been that woman. I will continue to use my judgement to decide when I feel it is appropriate to use it.

One example that springs to mind that always came up on a different forum is "she's 14/15 she knows what she's doing" coupled with examples of "awful" sexual behaviour of such 14/15 yos when discussing a man having sex with a child.

BertrandRussell
I suppose you and the Dworkin argument that these women cut the best deal they could, and now they have to lump it, from Right Wing Women is correct.
Still, I always keep in mind that it is when a woman tries to leave that is the most dangerous for her.

It's all about performing mental acrobatics to avoid the truth isn't it? Cognitive dissonance is it?

Otherwise my MIL, for example, would be required to accept that she has spent 50 years skivvying for an arsehole who holds her in contempt. Much better to believe all that patriarchal guff about women's roles and be utterly bemused by me because I don't give a shiny shit about any of it.

There was me thinking 'I'll get my coat" and you return to the topic yourself! It's your thread I suppose

Your pizza sounds lush bert

I have asked what very specific behaviours make a woman a "handmaiden"?
Women who are in compliance with and promote the dominance/submission paradigm. Usually because their survival depends on it.
Take note of what the women say who are "porn stars" and prostituted women before, and then after, they exit.

It is impossible for men to be "handmaidens" because it is a term to describe women colliding with misogyny for their own advantage while disregarding the needs of other women.

Exactly. So yes it is "exclusive to women" by default.

BeyondAssignation YY. I think that 'handmaid' has different nuances for different people.

I can't hear the word without mentally connecting it to Mary ("I am the handmaiden of the Lord" at the annunciation). To me, the word means 'woman who chooses to submit'. Which I think might also work in feminist contexts. Women choose to submit to the patriarchy for various self-serving, self-protective or (e.g. in the case of mothers who prioritise their children/elderly relatives because their male relatives won't) selfless reasons.

I personally can't get too worked up about whether people use the word disparagingly or not.

Sorry for the further derail BertrandRussell. Back to baking Pizza sounds flipping lovely.