Are terms like Male Tears unhelpful?

@Cherry
Well if men aren't at the centre of everything, they feel they are being ignored.. which is why so many of them go on to being mass shooters..

This is men's world, men 's oyster and women have never been seen as as part of it, but interlopers, invading men's territory .. who are fair game for men to stalk anytime they think to venture into it.. everywhere is men's territory and feminism is something that denies men that..

We see why so many men despise feminism, it doesn't promote men's male propaganda of men being brave heroic self sacrificing martyrs but challenges those ideas instead..

Exactly AsMen. Men's problems as a class are 99% of the time as a result of other men, not women. Yet woman are expected to centre men in feminism

@MephistophelesApprentice

With regard to men's issues, only men can solve them.
But that would mean men would have to actually do something about them..
but men really aren't interested in doing that..

It is much easier for men to whine
"OMG, more men die in accidents at work than women?"
"OMG millions of men have been killed in war!"

yEAH And who killed them?
AW shut up you feminist, that's irrelevant!
As if!

These are things men constantly complain about but to solve them it would require men to do something about them, wouldn't it?

"man flu" is another

xeno you are awesome. I love "wazzocksplained". Gender neutral, but will probably mainly apply to one gender. Awesome.
Didn't you also come up with trombone? One of my favourites!

I realise the moment has passed, but I'd also like to suggest that comparing feminists puncturing male temper tantrums with white people attempting to silence blm campaigners on the grounds that they're too 'angry' betrays a total failure to understand privilege, oppression or indeed history.

I think Cherry’s definition is spot on, it doesn’t mean ‘laughing at men who are showing emotion’. I’ve never used it but I think it probably does have a place - such as on threads about women-only breastfeeding classes when a man pops up to talk about how unfair that is to him.

Glad you apologise for wasting our time.

The best way for you to show your contrition is to stop posting when you know you're wrong, and possibly even apologise for being a disingenuous arse.

I know, pipe dreams

Evidently I have communicated poorly, because this:

"Shorn of context, I would say it pretty obviously suggests 'I am a feminist and hostile towards all men' and I don't think that's particularly helpful."

Is a better summary of what I was trying to communicate.

I apologise for wasting your time.

@MephistophelesApprentice she's making a different argument to you.

AssassinatedBeauty

Amusingly thedancingbellend has made the argument far better than I can. Sure, it may - as in the example that IrkThePurist provided, be in response to an idiot. But it has an existence beyond the specific usages where it will be shorn of context and therefore negatively impact the image of feminists and feminism.

As AdultHumanFemale references, when these 'jokey' 'harmless' phrases are used against a class in which you see yourself as a member you realise the actual impact they could have on others.

thedancingbear

I agree.

Generally all nuance and context goes out the window when using social media for ‘activism’ or raising ‘awareness’.

I'm not terribly keen either.

It does often feel like feminists are expected to maintain the higher ground in the face of exceptional provocation though.

They give us rape threats / death threats / all sorts of graphic gleefully violent stuff, we give them male tears.... And we are told not to rise to it.

Still, agree with you.

I really don't like this phrase. Most recently seen on an intersectional feminist FB group I lurk on, where someone posted a meme of someone drinking from a cup labelled 'cis privilege tears'. I think it is shaming, like calling someone a crybaby instead of engaging properly. Other members were falling over themselves to 'like' the post, and I had a really demoralising struggle with myself about whether to out myself as GC on FB. Which I didn't.

I'm ignoring MephistophelesBellend

I think it's apparent that where the expression is used at all, there is usually some sort of context or back-story such that it's not intended as a blanket expression of ill will towards men.

I'm aware of the expression from seeing someone wearing it on a t-shirt (not Jessica whatsit, an actual flesh person). Shorn of context, I would say it pretty obviously suggests 'I am a feminist and hostile towards all men' and I don't think that's particularly helpful.

Could you support a breast cancer charity whilst also believing that fighting breast cancer is unimportant?

Certain people would like us to believe that everything feminists say has a negative impact on feminists goals.

You have completely failed to address the usage of the phrase and are simply talking as if your personal interpretation of its use is the actuality.

thedancingbear/AssassinatedBeauty

I don't understand your counter arguments. I could support a breast cancer charity and still believe women shouldn't be equal to men. A charity that targets circumstances that effect both men and women can't really be regarded as evidence that one has any positive intentions towards men.

This is somewhat irrelevant to the OP, which to clarify I was simply agreeing with - 'male tears' is an example of active hypocrisy (detectable without radar, thanks CritEqual) that negatively impacts feminisms goals.

The gall of that man using Q as an avatar!

Talk about ego

First time I saw it was when Jessica Valentine posted a photo of herself wearing a t-shirt with “I bathe in male tears” printed across the front. Apparently it was in response to all the online / twitter abuse she had received from all the MRA wing nuts the month before. Problem is all context was lost when the photo went viral and all people concluded was ‘oh look, another man hating feminist’.

I found an example of 'male tears used in the wild. It has nothing to do with feminists promoting gender stereotypes. Its used precisely as CherryChasingDotMuncher explained.

I'm sure she did it for all sorts of positive moral reasons. I don't believe that helping men was the primary reason, if it even was considered at all.

Given that it was a gig for a mental health charity, this makes as much sense as fjsafidfadfh aofdsaf fdsaretr gribble gribble.

Mephistopheles, god knows I don't agree with everything that everyone says on these boards, but you're being a bit of a dick here mate.

I am never disingenuous.

You've misunderstood which question. The question I was referring to was why you automatically disbelieved @PricklyBall. I can see you've moderated your response to that slightly and now say that you believe it might have been a secondary reason.

I can't see why you'd do a gig for a specific charity if you didn't support that charity to some degree.

Why are there sides?

Because one side likes to describe every utterance against sexism as 'hysterical' or 'shrill' and the other likes to call it 'male tears' or 'fragile masculinity'.

Why do you think I think you're not communicating in good faith?

Please, a genuine request - please don't be disingenuous, it makes any discussion unnecessarily laborious.

And you haven't answered the question, as I'm sure you know.

If it's the question "what have I done for male mental health lately?" the answer is that this week I have helped one good friend in the aftermath of a racist incident and assisted another through a dangerous depressive episode.
You don't get nice badges or ribbons for that sort of thing.

Do you think she did it just so she could wave it in your face?

I'm sure she did it for all sorts of positive moral reasons. I don't believe that helping men was the primary reason, if it even was considered at all.

I've seen male tears used but mainly in places where men aren't there to see it ie women talking amongst themselves (and we know how much some men hate that!).

Example might be e.g. metoo where loads of women are telling their stories of sexual assault in work situations and there are men saying "but this means I have to be extra careful in the workplace - they might accuse me of something!" so taking something that is a real issue for women, and turning it around and complaining that women raising this issue disadvantages them in some (imaginary) way.

I see that most people on this thread when they've seen it used it's been this way as well.

Like that politician "but this means men won't be able to ask out women they work with any more!!!!!" oh yes boohoo you're the real victim here.. that sort of thing.