Man in Brighton exposes himself to children while wearing womens clothes claims athletes foot made him do it

BatShite

Why would anyone not transitiong and taking other steps do a stat dec.

It wont save them from a criminal charge, but might show planning and intent. It wont stop them being challenged for the other docs they don't have as if like the current GRC the other docs are the only ones that can be asked for.

Its a bit of admin at the end of transition, nothing more and certainly not a very good tool for a perv

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so.

Debbie

If they say that they're trans, then they're trans, under the current doctrine. That's the effect of the current Equality Act provision and will be further codified under the proposed amendments to the GRA.

So, no, nobody will challenge a male person in a female space now. It would be considered discriminatory tor do so, and anyway, there are no "facts" to establish in law any more;

"Oi what you doin' in 'ere mate?"

"I'm a lady"

"I do apologise Miss. So sorry for disturbing you."

Even that exchange would be considered discrimination or harassment or some such and it would be utterly pointless in any case.

So if Danielle Muscato waltzes in with his beard and full male outfit I can just ask him to show me his driving licence? Seriously?

Have you noticed that people anticipate and respond to the general gist of the law? Like that even before the GRA amendments have even been discussed, public bodies are actioning them as if they're law? Expectations already are that self id is in place, hence the individual a few weeks ago who threw a tantrum in topshop for being questioned on using the changing room of his choice. The gist will be men can go anywhere, into any woman's space, facility and resource, and women are no longer entitled to classify themselves as a group or be apart from men.

QuentinSummers

Were both not challenged and charged, and no one called a bigot.

Doing a stat declaration will not stand up to scrutiny if its the only thing done towards transition.

But this is actually exactly what the changes are to be! No changes, no diagnosis, nothing at all. Besides filling in a form.

So you understand why people are concerned now I take it?

It sounds ridiculous, but this is exactly what the proposals are.

It doesn't eliminate sex in law, there will still be male and female and X non binary.

Doing a stat declaration will not stand up to scrutiny if its the only thing done towards transition.

As per the current GRC it would hopefully be discrimination to ask for a stat dec from a trans person. it is expected to be non discriminatory to ask for the same ID every other person has. A false stat dec without driving licence, passport, bank cards, etc wont stand up to any claim to be in a single sex place.

So if I saw someone like this in the toilet, is be a bigot for asking them to leave because they are a trans woman
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/15/us/target-transgender-idaho-voyeurism.amp.html

But if I asked the man wearing women's clothes in this article to leave it would be ok because he's not trans
www.theargus.co.uk/news/15768693.Salesman_in_sports_bra_exposed_himself_in_children___s_play_area/

It would be discriminatory to deny them access once the facts are established, if they are genuine then the facts will support them being trans,

How are we establishing these facts - it's discrimination to ask them to show a GRC.

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so

honestly I don't think this is what will happen. If women stop feeling safe in toilets, they'll just stop using them.

What 'facts' are we talking about here? How can we tell the difference between 'genuine' and 'predatory male' when all that is required of either is to fill in a form?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

No it wont. It would be discriminatory to deny them access once the facts are established, if they are genuine then the facts will support them being trans, If they are a predatory male then the facts wont support them being trans, they wont have a driving licence, they wont have a passport, etc The stat dec is not the licence to go where you want on its own, its a tool to finish off your transition on your own terms, chances are like the GRC it would be discriminatory to ask for it so it would be useless as a supporting doc in its own right.

That is a tiny tiny part of it I agree. The more worrying thing is the elimination of male and female sex categories in law.

Indeed.

Because the GRA has nothing to do with taking a piss in the shopping centre toilets.

Who will benefit from the proposed changes, which include removing a diagnosis of sex dysphoria?

How will allowing anyone to 'change sex' by filling in a form help transsexual people, who can already get a GRC under current rules?

Because the GRA has nothing to do with taking a piss in the shopping centre toilets.

That is a tiny tiny part of it I agree. The more worrying thing is the elimination of male and female sex categories in law.

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so

Actually it will. It will be considered discrimatory to question a transpersons sex.

How do you propose to tell the difference between male identifying as female, and male pretending to identify as female?

BatShite

Because the GRA has nothing to do with taking a piss in the shopping centre toilets.

It looks to me like we have been successfully diverted away from the topic at hand, e.g. how to make it harder for men like in the OP to commit sex crimes

PencilsInSpace

That is the process on paper, reality is somewhat different. there are other costs involved in obtaining the correct documentation before the GRC cost. There is more than a 5 bits of paperwork needed. If its so easy then it makes no odds to let self ID which is easy too. The vast majority who have been through the process say its intrusive and costly.

Why do trans women feel unsafe in male toilets? Deb

Why is the 'third space' going to be lesser for pete's sake? How?

If you have someone saying 'I cannot use the toilet/changing room designated for my sex because....' then fine, they should have an alternative. It's not fine to just demand that women sacrifice their own spaces.

its ridiculous to expect a passing trans woman to use the gents

Really? Deb

Care to expand on why this is ridiculous

Go in the facility, use if for what it was designed for, mind you own business, be sensible and respectful of other users. its not hard is it, we have been doing it for years.

So, if theres no issue with how things are now, why the push from transactivists to be changing the GRA? Who will benefit from the changes?

I know very well trans women use women's toilets. Its a false claim that the GRA will let men into the ladies,

Any male looking person in the ladies will rightfully be challenged both now and after self id GRA. It wont be a crime to do so.

it will carry on just as it is now and has been for years. no need for third spaces, no need for trans women to use the gents.

Go in the facility, use if for what it was designed for, mind you own business, be sensible and respectful of other users. its not hard is it, we have been doing it for years.

Why are there not laws for the legal definition of men?

Instead of this ridiculous whataboutery, why don't you tell me YOUR solution here? Given a third space is no good, expecting people to use the areas associated with their sex is no good, getting rid of sex segregation is no good...there must be some solution you have in mind?