autistic appropriation by trans women

Datun, plenty of us are very aware of what's going on! I would suggest not saying autism is over-represented in the trans community beciase that makes it sound like the trans identity comes first, I think we need to be thinking about why trans is over-represented among autistic people.

There is a big anti-diagnosis anti-medical movement among the self-IDers.

Regarding the female presentation of autism (and autism plus female socialisation does look different to autism plus male socialisation), there was a lot of criticism by the usual self-ID trans/autistics on Twitter of the recent NAS women and girls conference, a ridiculous amount of 'what about men and boys?'.

To understand why autistic women and girls get misdiagnosed and are under-diagnosed we have to understand our female gender socialisation. If we ignore that then we won't get diagnosed.

Can I just apologise in advance if what I say causes offence. I’m not autistic and I don’t know anyone who is. So I might get this wrong in terms of the way I’m saying it.

Although I knew that autism was overly represented in the trans community, it hadn’t occurred to me that would be used as leverage against women. Or could put women at even more of a disadvantage in terms of how the sexes present differently.

There is no end to the ways in which women are being erased, is there?

I’m really sorry OP. As I said, I’m not autistic, but have found talking to the women on here who are autistic, very enlightening.

Transgenderism relies on society’s definition of gender. I’m guessing people who are autistic don’t recognise that, so basically have to pick a side? If they thought about it at all. What I don’t understand is why they would pick a side that didn’t make sense.

I can understand the autistic transwomen who transition for fetish reasons, because at least that makes sense. There is a definite marker for wanting to change.

Plus the social contagion that can make someone, who was floundering with gender markers, at least feel included.

But it does seem to obscure autism in a way that must be very distressing.

And the language used. One doesn’t identify as autistic, surely? As though it’s a choice.

It’s more of the same, though. Identifying as something means you are that thing. Whether you are or not.

God. More appropriation and blurring.

Thank you for writing this OP, I think there are a lot of us autistic women out there with very similar concerns, but scared to speak out as the self-identified trans/autistic infiltration of autistic spaces would mean ostracism (and worse).

I believe that Tania Marshall has written and shared gender critical stuff, but I've yet to come across any autistic academics who are challenging the nonsense. As a fledgling academic, I'm very conscious of how well the activists mobilise and target people who question the self-identification (trans and autism) thing or indeed anything that suggests autism is more than a difference.

It is all incredibly worrying

I imagine they are recorded as ‘female’ in the same way offenders are now.

So actual female autism is going to disappear in a puff of bad statistics.

Excellent post OP, I’d never thought of this before.

I worry about women missing out on diagnosis because trans women present themselves as representatives of autistic women without having the lifetime experience of autistic women

^^this

Does anyone know whether when information is gathered/studies are done in relation to autistic women is the ‘trans’ taken into account/noted anywhere or is a MTF who goes through the diagnostic process just put down as a woman?

We are also black and white thinkers. If you had told me at the age of 10 that my short hair and love of all things “boy” and hatred of pink, meant that I was a boy and not a girl, I would have believed you. I would have “followed the rule”. That’s what I do

Yes & I think this is what happens when teenagers with autism stumble on trans forums. I do share your concern. Unfortunately the narrative doesn’t seem to be to question the identification as trans.

Sorry for rambling on.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out that transwomen claiming to be autistic actually are, but that doesn’t mean shared experience with me.

My particular worries at the moment surround autism and menopause.

We need women’s spaces, men’s spaces and trans spaces. I absolutely don’t want to see anyone going without support. But I need support too. I am vulnerable too.

And as someone who has always longed to belong, there are few spaces that are mine. I do not want to be shunned by the autistic community. It’s not like I have many support networks to fall back on.

I have also seen several autistic women being told on Twitter that the fact they have babies isn’t an expression of womanhood, they are probably trans because they don’t wear make-up. Anyone who questions the rhetoric is attacked (both by the autism community and the trans community). I cannot say my fears out loud, or point out that having a baby is a female thing to do and make-up is not.

TBH I think there’s a huge problem with self identifying autism in general (I have a severely autistic non-verbal son and have come in for some abuse at time from those who self identify as having autism).

I do know of some definitely autistic young men who have been sort of picked up by trans forums - they are very vulnerable to this stuff.

I know it sounds blasé but I just stay away from those self identifying and seek out families who are caring for people like my son. Autism isn’t one condition - beginning to be more accurately recognised as autisms (drives the self identifiers mad when you say that) so no-one is necessarily representing your condition iykwim. If you can find some like minded soul it becomes easier to ignore the rest of them.

Twitter is a particularly aggressive spot for the self identifiers ime. I ignore them, maybe just block the lot of them (sorry, I know it is upsetting, but they’re not going to change and see the light so there’s little point arguing with them).

Have also namechanged.

I am also an autistic woman, and yes, it’s scary. What really terrifies me is that all the autistic women I know do not follow gender stereotypes (of course we don’t, we don’t pick up social norms in the same way!).

We are also black and white thinkers. If you had told me at the age of 10 that my short hair and love of all things “boy” and hatred of pink, meant that I was a boy and not a girl, I would have believed you. I would have “followed the rule”. That’s what I do.

I’m not a boy, I’m a completely normal adult woman who doesn’t follow gender stereotypes because they make no sense to me. I never wanted children until I did want them in my. 20s. I might have missed out on that by sterilising myself.

I am so frightened for young autistic women. Not liking a dress, not being interested in dolls or hugs or “caring” playing, is normal for autistic girls. That’s often how we present. It does not make us boys.

I am a rape survivor. I have times that I cannot be alone in a room with a person with a penis. That’s my rule. Transwomen in my support network excludes me. There is no support. There is so little out there for us, and now there is even less

I don’t understand any of it. None of it makes sense. Lying hurts me, and they want me to lie and say that a penis can be female. That a dress is how you define a woman.

I am so proud of being a woman. I am so proud of being autistic. And I am so frightened of the gaslighting of people like me. We have had it our whole lives - people telling us what we experience isn’t real and to stop being silly. We are not protecting autistic people.

Testing name change and placemarking to post later.

This is the trouble with allowing people to decide what they are. Men take over, there will be no area where women can be heard with out a male voice. I think society is so used to female oppression that they don't give a monkeys when we are oppressed that little nit more.

I am so sorry you are having your space invaded op. All we can do is raise awareness and keep on standing up for women and girls.

Am flabbergasted that they have now jumped on this. It's long been known that gender confusion can be one of many signs that indicate autism. However, this was originally a way of showing young teens that the reason for their confusion wasn't because they are trans but because they have an underlying condition. By receiving help with autism many teens went on to lead happy lives living as the gender they were at birth. This makes me so angry that they will do anything to make trans a "gender" it's own right.

Should add that afaik there’s a huge crossover between autism and trans in both sexes, not just girls.

As I understand it, there’s a huge crossover between autistic girls and girls transing. So you’ve already got skewed numbers of autism in girls because they are now, er, boys.

And you’ve then got autistic men (who are far greater in number than autistic women), transing in later life, who are then counted, not as women but as Transwomen. As in, they will be recorded as women but presenting with male Autism traits. So basically, as with lesbians, there is an erasure of women happening. Autism in women will remain under diagnosed and underfunded because the research available will be skewed out of all recognition.

This stuff honestly keeps me awake at night. It’s a kafkaesque nightmare and it seems there’s only a minority of us resisting it.

That's very worrying OP I know in my town there us a charitable support group for adults with autism and ADHD and an official duanosis is not required to attend. I could easily see how such a group could be infiltrated by those with their own agenda.

This is an area where there is recent and significant research showing the differences between a male and female brain in people with autism. The two are very different and I can see how doubly dishonest it is for a TIM to not only claim to have a female brain but a female brain in a person with autism.

I would hope the academics and doctors involved in research of what autism more typically looks like in females won't be swayed by the TIMS but I can understand how not having a supportive community who accurately recognise the diffrent difficulties females experience will be affecting your wellbeing. I'd be upset and angry too.

I hope I don't cause offence to anyone autistic (i even have suspicions that i myself might be), but it doesn't surprise me that trans-women might be autistic. I'm not sure why since I can't verbalise my thoughts too well, but it feels like it fits. And if they're vocal about being autistic and oppressed? Well, good. Autistic people have been 'shat' on for ages, so it's about time someone got angry about it

This is very concerning; my teen DD is likely on the spectrum. We've been discussing the TRA issue a lot recently.

I'm worried that my 12 year old female cousin might be autistic, and that that in turn might leave her vulnerable to TRAs.
OP you have every right to be angry about this.
I've wondered before if it might be worth trying to engage Sophie Walker on this issue as even though WEP are utterly useless she is a strong campaigner for autism as her daughter has it.

I hear you.

My youngest sibling (still a teenager) is autistic and over the last couple of years has come out as a trans woman and morphed into the most unreasonable and aggressive trans activist

I can see absolute and clear links between their rigid ways of thinking, their developmental delays, their history of obsessional behaviour, and this trans stuff. Sadly the rest of our family are tiptoing along behind them. I can tell that my parents think it's bollocks but they won't say so - they're old school lefties who'd rather go along with it than step out of line and risk accusations of transphobia. It's very upsetting to watch.

I didn't know about the TAs self identifying as autistic but it doesn't surprise me at all. My sibling has always refused to engage with the idea that they have autism until quite recently when they started to add it to their list of oppressions/labels (ie queer trans girl lesbian 100% female autistic at the top of all their social media).

They are biologically male but despite everyone knowing this from a single glance, presumably any services they now engage with will record them as female and their presentation of autism will now affect how autism in women is understood. Very deeply frustrating.

"But surely non-trans women and men also incorrectly claim they’re on the spectrum? "

No I don't think that's comparable at all. Autistic is strongly stereotyped as male. So men claiming to be autistic don't really affect that much.

Female autism is a minority of autistic people, and visibility is very poor. All the media images of autistic people are male.

*than

OP Can I ask what your 'life's problems/or 'symptoms' were please? I'd rather hear it from a person that google.

I've always wondered if I could be....