autistic appropriation by trans women

This thread is fascinating, and heartbreaking. I'd heard before that women present differently with autism to men, so can imagine having men pretending to be women claiming to have autism would skew perceptions further and make it even harder to get a diagnosis. The knock on effects are huge.

As an aside, that performing pain piece has given me chills, because it's so close to my own experience of communicating pain.

It's part of why I wear make up - my socialising mask. I'm fine without it at home, I'm not bothered by my skin or anything, but if I go out its like stage make up that I put on to perform.

Raisins, yup. Many autistic women mask and mirror really well. People are usually surprised to find out that I’m autistic. When I’m in public I “perform”, if they could see me when I’m at home, and can behave in my natural way, I reckon they’d be a lot less surprised

This is so interesting to me. I have a close friend who has had so many problems with Bipolar, and in the past she has had the ability to persuade doctors that she is fine to be discharged when she isn't.

But from reading this thread I now realise she has many autistic traits, particularly from the aspergirlsociety table. However, she does have very good social skills. Is it possible for autistic women to have the ability to learn social skills from other people? She is very interested in other people's lives and always asks people questions....

She is not trans, she is married, but has no interest in fashion/make up, and is happiest getting muddy in the woods and climbing trees!

Great to have an ear, Datun. I’m very sociable. I love people, but it takes a lot out of me. I also have loads of empathy (many autistic people have more than the usual amount), but don’t perform it in the same way, so it can be mistaken as having none.

I much prefer writing, since it levels the playing field. None of us can assume the tone, we only have the words, which makes people tend towards being explicit in what they say.

If the whole world was careful to say what it means, I would be far happier.

I do have social needs, but they are more seldom and purposeful, than little but often. I need people, but I also need time to rest my overworked brain.

Bloody hell. Thanks for all this.

I guess that’s why it’s easier to communicate on a forum? Because social cues are unnecessary.

I knew when I wrote that recognising all the social cues was exhausting that it wouldn’t be anywhere near as difficult as having to learn them.

I have, like most people, a need to be understood. And I find that writing makes it much easier. I don’t get tongue tied, I can choose my words carefully, I can look up synonyms if I’m repeating myself.

And I can delete it all and start again!

I’m reasonably good communicator in real life, but better online for all those reasons.

And I, too, set a lot of store on being straightforward.

My youngest son is not autistic, but he does have certain characteristics which used to make me wonder. He is incredibly literal. To the point of ridiculous misunderstanding. He’s not very empathetic. And he gets obsessions. He is musical and creative. Fussy eater, fussy dresser.

He also has snow vision?

But he’s also very sociable and can communicate well. Which I believe is a reason to think he is not at all on the spectrum.

But it has taught me to be explicit in what I say to him. And to give him some extra social skills, like asking other people how they are. And listening to what they say. It improved his popularity at school.

The reason I’m saying this is not to say that, oh look, lots of people have autistic traits, but because it has taught me personally to communicate in a way that is not ambiguous.

I can imagine people saying oh my husband isn’t empathetic, he must on the spectrum is nothing short of infuriating to autistic people.

Thank you for this information. It’s very useful if you come up against a person who seems a bit off, to suddenly wonder if there is a jolly good reason.

I always score really highly on the online tests,especially the ones tailored to women/girls. But I’ve never been brave enough to pursue it. I think I’m mostly scared of being laughed out of the doctors office.

It is so so helpful to share experiences though.

Thanks for this thread, and sorry for the merail.

It’s really common for women to have been diagnosed with many different mental health issues before finally getting an autism diagnosis. Bipolar is also a relatively common co-morbid.

Cliques that’s it exactly. I don’t perform mental distress the way I ‘should’, so it took a long time to be recognised as a real problem by the professionals. I went through a raft of diagnoses, depression, anxiety, BPD and then Bipolar 2. None have fitted exactly although bipolar and its treatment have been the best fit. I keep coming back to Aspergers though. DD has a lot of traits as well.

Thanks for the link.

Anachronistic, saw this on Twitter yesterday:-

autnot.wordpress.com/2017/12/06/performing-pain-autism/

Darth, that’s really interesting. I’ve had a really tough time of it the last few years and attempted suicide by overdose six times. They kept discharging me from services because apparently I presented as fine and not suicidal. I was screaming on the inside but spoke to all the professionals as though I had my shit together. Even when I said I was going to try again they figuratively patted me on the head and sent me on my merry way.

DH says it’s because I’m so good at ‘playing the game’ with other people that it’s become a hard habit to break. I only ever fall apart around him and the kids.

Yes, even positive interactions are exhausting, though perhaps not in the same way.

And the hardest thing is that interactions are so exhausting, I only have so much energy to devote to making the world a better place. We need allies. We need our voices to be heard.

Yes, indeed, I suffered with a broken bone for a week before I showed enough pain to be believed, by which time I was in agony.

Any rule that expects women to behave in a certain way, is a double burden on autistic women.

Yes, with women often being assumed to exaggerate their pain, and autistic women usually going blank or quiet, there can be a real issue there in getting help too.

Not exactly Datun, I will never learn to read faces as they're too complicated and I don't have the cognitive ability to do that. I need people to tell me or show me more explicitly.

An example. I was fortunate to spend the weekend with a lovely autistic friend and we encountered a very stressful situation. Neither of us could see that the other was stressed, I was in fact holding back tears, but what was different was that when I told her this she believed me and didn't assume that because I looked relaxed and in control that I was relaxed and in control. It is a seemingly very simple thing but my experience is that if I had been with a neurotypical person they would have assumed I was over-reacting as I looked ok.

Actually it’s really similar to gendered-micro-aggressions. Communicating with NTs can mean constant micro-aggressions - touch, sound, eye-contact, unclear instructions.

Eyecontact isn’t valued. Social touching is usually only done with consent. All these small things build up

Autistic people tend to be clearer in their words. I know they understand how I work and I don’t have to perform for them. We can stim if needed without fear of judgement. You can state a need without just hoping it will be guessed.

You do have to learn these things, but sad face is easy. Now have sad face, sarcastic intonation, raised eyebrow and followed by a grimace with the words being vague and meaningless. The better I know someone the better I am at it. Good people will be clear at all times.

Just as you can learn other cultural variations, I’ve learned my own culture’s. As though I’m on the outside looking in.

I have wasted my life studying neurotypical interactions

*me too

Gender rule also jar with my need for things to be fair.

You too. My sense of justice has always bothered me. I didn’t realise the correlation with feminism tho.

Wow, thanks.

So there are two things. Cues which are gendered and cues which are just normal social interaction?

So you have to learn that someone with a sad face means they are sad? And what sad face looks like, as opposed to a grumpy face?

You know what sad is, but not necessarily what it looks like?

Also if you can read cues from other autistic people, what are those cues?