Woman kicked out of Labour's Women's Network party because her views might make a MALE feel unsafe

SparklyUnicornTractors
Thanks for that post. Im trying to share our worries with as many sympathetic friends as I can and this will really help .

I think the comment from Venice under that mean looks really bad. But actually, it's been manipulated somewhat and taken out of context.

Considering the context, I think she's actually spot on. Yes, that Adrie guy has been threatening suicide and saying he's been self harming because of TERF abuse. And that he's written a suicide note naming all the terfs who made him do it (saw this on twitter earlier). So I think she's got a valid point on the suicide thing, it's more of a warning that this will be the tactic deployed soon.

Next, she's actually saying for people not to make memes about Liam.

And saying the campaigning should be done through official channels. All above board.

It's very unfortunate.

SparklyUnicorn that's a really, seriously helpful list, thank you for posting it.

I would add a Type 4 - gender nonconforming people, who are just people (lots and lots and lots of people) who before all this nonsense, might just say they feel no particular affinity for "identifying" as a woman or a man, just live the way they want to, don't have an internal gender identity at all. In my age bracket, they'd just be "people in the regular range of people" and they would include women who cut their hair short, adopt nicknames like "Steve" and whose dress sense would be described by their friends as "mannish". (I'd love to grow up to be an old lady with a crop and a cravat, known as "Steve".) In the teen and twenty-something and thirty-something age bracket, this group may now identify as trans, nonbinary or genderqueer. In young men the motivation (acknowledged or not) is frequently, it appears, to Teflon-coat them against accusations of sexism for when they are being utter dicks, and to give them priority access and an ostensibly non-threatening posture to women. In young women the motivation (acknowledged or not) appears to be to Teflon-coat them against the relentless abuse directed at women, especially at gender nonconforming women, and especially, especially at lesbians (since to be a lesbian is automatically to be suspected of being a TERF). Naturally, this Teflon-coating often doesn't work for women.

I have no idea where I was going with 'I'm a'

sparkly I'm amazed that the statistics bare out my first hand observations. Between 0.5-1% of my local secondary school are 'trans' five years ago there were none. Five years ago the boys would have been gay (and accepted by the peer group) the girls would've been lesbians or self harmers.

I'm a

MrGHardy I'd been following this on twitter during the day and the "but they started it!" type comments have looked like children squabbling and a deflection from a pretty unpleasant comment.

"Our side" are free to play it like that if they want, but it looks shit to everyone else.

Is that true Terry that more girls than boys are transitioning?

Different groups and different types/situations. 'Trans' lumps a lot of groups under one umbrella, and has done so because it serves a good purpose.

Type one: gender dysphoria from a very early age that persists. Those children almost always grow up to be gay whether or not they choose to transition.

Type two: rapid onset dysphoria. Happens mostly in early to mid teens and is massively girls. In previous years, 60-80% of these girls moved from trans to being lesbian as they grew up, however this is the group massively affected by social contagion which probably changes things. No one is asking why massive numbers of teenaged girls don't want to grow up and become women in our society. because it seems bloody obvious to me .

Type three: adults who identify as trans, often having shown no dysphoria through their childhoods, many of whom married and had children. This group is massively adult male dominated, who went through full male adolescence and male socialisation, and many don't experience gender dysphoria, hence the insistence that gender dysphoria isn't part of being trans. (People with gender dysphoria arguing that if you don't have dysphoria and want to identify as the other sex for other reasons aren't really trans are named truscum by the trans lobby.) This group also involve people who would previously have called themselves cross dressers.

Type three are the ones leading the TRA movement. Transmen are nowhere in the trans agenda at all, no one's interested in getting transmen into positions of power which tells you a lot about how the group really feels about women. However type three are the ones pushing for the changes to the GRA for people with type one and type two, never themselves having had the experience of growing up with gender dysphoria, or taking radical medication in a way that is effectively chemical castration. They're also writing the education policies which LAs are swallowing whole (ie segregate out children with learning difficulties and train them in their 'assigned at birth gender' by separate and very stereotypical 'boy' or 'girl' play experiences because they won't apparently develop a sufficient sense of gender themselves. If they don't like it when you don't let them play with the frozen frocks or the lego aged three, you then explain that they are gender fluid and encourage them to find their true gender. I wish I was kidding.)

Most of type three are thought to have autogynephilia (sexual attraction to thinking of themselves as women, dressing as and acting as a woman, being included in validating situations as a woman by other women - 'girl talk', experiencing objectification and cat calling, changing alongside women etc) which is where the 'all women get turned on by themselves when they get dressed' statements come from. This group is almost exclusively straight, so men attracted to women. Worth looking up 'trans widows' as a phrase.

nauticant Lily's buddy Adrie already has threatened suicide, and preemptively blamed transphobes. So that comment makes a lot of sense.

bananasaregood if those things are true, then I assume you have evidence?

If it’s other people who have called Lily a dickhead and dr radfem was telling them not to then that’s a different story.

Other people were being abusive and @drradfem's "attempt to tone it down" was was pretty unpleasant:

I seriously this dickhead is going to fake a suicide soon, I think we should campaign officially through the Labour Party about him but save our meany memes for Izzard and Clitoris

twitter.com/Emp_Hadrian/status/940731227551797249

Her defence of this during the day has not been successful.

It was the best they could find after a lot of doxxing and stalking and digging.

There is much worse on the twitter comments of ch 4, and none anything to do with feminists.

Funny how these death threats exist yet none of Lily's posse have posted them on twitter. Unless you are taking the post saying not to do things as Lily may attempt suicide as a threat? Which is a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

Let's be clear what has actually happens:

1. Numerous trans-identified males threaten to kill women, make casual comments about raping and murdering women, threaten suicide, post disgusting porn, etc. Nobody cares or ever does anything, it's normal, stop moaning silly women.

1. One woman calls someone a (shock horror!) dicksplash on a tiny private forum created because said trans-identified males refuse to allow women to discuss these issues in public, they shut down public and private debate, they get TV shows pulled, they assault women, etc. And then another woman suggests in said tiny private forum, the one tiny place on the internet where women can speak somewhat openly in the way that men do constantly without any embarrassment in public, that it's not a good idea to bully him because he's mentally fragile.

Except actually no, women aren't allowed even a tiny private place on the internet to talk somewhat like men do publicly, because men can't handle that, so they infiltrate it, they publish the members' personal contact details on the internet to violent men who issue death threats as easily as breathing. And then they steal the private communications which are slightly rude at worst - no threats of violence like men do - and disseminate them to the subject of the correspondence, the one where the women - in private - said 'don't pick on him' - causing him distress. But obviously it's the women who had a private discussion in a forum of a handful of people that are to blame for this, not the bloke that stole it and passed it on to him.

And by the way, specifically on the suicide comment, trans lobbyists CONSTANTLY tell us how half of trans-identified people will attempt suicide, so it's hardly a surprise. Particularly given that Lily's partner in harassing Anne Ruzylo, Adrie actually threatened suicide on Twitter when his truly hateful misogynist posts - made in public, as an adult, under his own name in a public forum - were highlighted, shortly before that meme about Lily was posted. .

Enough double standards and bullshit already.

If it’s other people who have called Lily a dickhead and dr radfem was telling them not to then that’s a different story.

I’m confused now as to who has actually done what.

You lose the moral high ground when you call people dickheads, etc.

If I called a colleague a dickhead in a secret fb group and someone screenshot it and dobbed me in at work I’d be on very thin ice and possibly facing a disciplinary. Whether or not I’d be welcome at the xmas party would be the least of my concerns.

Screencaps on Twitter of her abusive and harassing comments, borderline death threats,

What kind of stuff was she saying?

Borderline death threats?
That's a serious accusation, Bananasaregood. I am sure you are ready to back it up with evidence. Right?

I can't see any 'attack' either. Like you say, she was calming the waters and telling them to go elsewhere. It is Lily's friends who have plastered it all over twitter, and now the papers.

*link

"borderline death threats,"

bollocks.

Screencaps on Twitter of her abusive and harassing comments, borderline death threats,

Can you bring to those, please?

There has been a hell of a lot of stalking material plastered all over twitter about Venice with instructions to contact her employer etc. over the last few days. I have never seen that about anyone else. There are also lists to block and stalk available of 'terfs'.

There are plenty of photos of that party on the internet with people in the background. I expect everyone asked permission, or do you have to be on the 'right side' for this sort of stuff.

I don't know if people are just being a bit thick and not reading the post properly and just seeing 'dickhead' and 'suicide' and not realising that Allen was saying that Madigan shouldn't be targeted on social media with these sorts of memes.

I am not sure I what world what she wrote is 'violent hate speech' though?

I expect it is hard to join a facebook group that does something positive with a high moral tone, seeing as you can't find one openly. It is all a bit 'allo 'allo.

It would be so much better if you could openly join a group and have meetings to discuss what you want to do, with out all the cloak and dagger stuff, being stalked, and without your venue pulling out at the last minute because they have been inundated with anonymous telephone calls.