Advice from a mental health specialist re women's roles

You're pregnant on top of everything else? I.e., doing yet another exhausting job on your dh's behalf?

I would suggest asking your DH the same question that you asked upthread:

Surely there's a medium between acceptance and losing my shit/being single forever?

directly with a little detail about what you feel you're being asked to accept.

And as pp says, sack off your unhelpful therapist and spend the money on either a more helpful one or a cleaner or 3 weeks alone in a hotel

Have you read the "facilitated men" threads on here, OP?

Completely agree with Prickly and others who talk about mental load. Women do carry the world on their shoulders.

Would definitely say get a cleaner if u poss can.

I've found NHS mental health services hugely misogynistic. Staff believed what my manic delusional husband said about me and our marriage, over what I was saying, even approving legal mediation as they didn't want to get involved, when oh was really too ill, and me too traumatised. Sorry I digress.

But do agree really finding another counsellor.

Most people would recommend spending the therapy fee on a cleaner, I think. It's ideologically unsound, but pragmatic.

Or perhaps they were saying that reality is pretty crap and sometimes it’s easier - for oneself- to detach or accept

From a therapeutic point of view - this. I practice "radical acceptance" because I have a debilitating health condition that means it's better for my mental health to accept living in a disorganised shit-hole because I can't keep up with housework. It's like the old serenity prayer: Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.

This despite the fact that every word of PricklyBall's post is true. If you lack energy to get through your life, it's not a great time to set about changing the man you married. But he could, and should, support you more. I'm disappointed that your counsellor didn't explore ways of getting through to him - but you can do it here, if you want? Does he actually know what you need of him? And how dreadful would it be for your family to live in a slowly declining home environment?

Oh, probably. I was thinking slightly more in terms of sex therapy and 'marriage guidance' I suppose, which has always been all about making women shut up and obey, and drugging them into compliance...

An awful lot of the therapy industry is still thoroughly misogynistic. Not least because much of it grew out of the need to find new ways of controlling women in the first place.

Reanimated I haven't come across/realised this, are there any books/articles covering it?

Ineedacupofteadesperately they see it as a preventative measure which works out cheaper overall. Really sensible.

The view that is the majority view IMO: I’ve heard it from friends

My friend, who is in a relat

She’s pushing her views on to you. You accept if you want to accept but I doubt it would help you or your family and it would be unhealthy for all.
I’m a MH professional, we’re not all like it.

Thermostat Love the German rest cure. If only the NHS would do this they'd probably save a fortune in counsellors and anti-depressants!

She responded that running away when you have 2 DCs is not an option and that I needed to learn to cope even when ill.

This is shocking. Your DCs would be with their other adult, healthy, parent. How insulting to your DH - she's acting like you're a single parent and he's completely incapable. I think getting away (not running away - you're delegating until you're well to the other responsible adult ffs) is exactly what you need to do - it's recuperation. And what if you simply can't cope? Why are women expected to keep going until they drop? Dump the therapist and spend the money you're saving on a longer hotel stay. At the very least, your DH will appreciate you more when you come back.

Totally agree with pricklyball and thermostat . There seems to be a lot of bullshit mindfulness spewed by the NHS to people who are miserable because of their situation. But it's never going to make you feel better is it, if the environment stays the same? Zero hours contract and can't pay the rent? Be mindful. Stuff that.

have tried several private counsellors/ psychologists/coaches over the years and have found similar issues...

I'm a bit horrified by this. My understanding was that counsellors and psychologists trained in most mainstream therapy models are explicitly taught not to impose their own cultural expectations on their clients. I agree with pps, dooba, keep looking til you find someone who knows how to do their job properly!

An awful lot of the therapy industry is still thoroughly misogynistic. Not least because much of it grew out of the need to find new ways of controlling women in the first place.
I think there have been a few recent studies done which show that a lot of what presents as MH problems in heterosexual women are purely and simply the result of a relationship with an abusive or selfish man (there's plenty of at least anecdotal evidence of this on MN) and they are not mentally 'ill' at all: their responses to being persistently mistreated are entirely rational.

But a therapist/counsellor whose advice is basically 'learn to eat shit and smile' is useless. It might be worth looking to see if there are any feminist therapists near you.

PricklyBall couldn't agree more.

I have also heard professionals advise women who are buckling under the strain to try looking at their situation in a different way. Why?? OP and other women seem to be reacting in a perfectly rational way to an intolerable workload and responsibility. It's not healthy. No wonder it affects their health.

DoubleRamsey I get what you're saying. But when we don't take on the mental load the consequences are often felt by people who are our responsibility. E.g. if I don't spend time finding a responsible babysitter rather than the first teenager who comes to mind, the kids will suffer, not me or DH. It's not a task that I can responsibly drop from the mental load even if DH has. Times this by a zillion minor but important responsibilities over several children and the load feels overwhelming. Even when we both disregard tasks that will only have consequences for DH and me.

Anyway OP. I would change counsellor. Possibly one who can counsel both you and your DH so that he understands the importance of stepping up. Your suggestion of a break when you need it is very, very reasonable. Such a reasonable idea. Indeed so reasonable that it is standard healthcare practise in some countries (e.g. Germany, where women buckling under strain can be prescribed a three-week 'cure' that includes FT childcare).

Fantastic post pricklyball.
What she said!

And I hope things improve for you OP

This is probably controversial but this is the very reason I think the current nuclear family set up doesn't work. I'm not sure why humans have adopted it to be honest! Patriarchal rubbish probably.

I feel like women are much better off in a community with other women when they have babies and get sick etc

But anyway I digress, sorry I know that's not particularly helpful, but in reality I'm not sure you can force someone to take the 'mental load' you either stop doing it and behave 'like a man' and see what the consequences are. A stance I have taken in my own life which has worked pretty well. Or you accept it. Trying to get a man (or anyone for that matter) to change is like chasing your tail. You will burn out and get more resentful with nothing to show for it. So I guess maybe that's what the counsellor meant about acceptance. That despite the injustice you can actually only control yourself.

How about the possibility that a lot of women's mental health issues (in general - not necessarily yours - though do think about this as a possibility) is due to the enormous extra stress placed on them by being expected to carry a huge load of extra work and responsibility in the form of the double shift - going from paid employment to the vast bulk of the domestic drudge work with no down time at all, while being expected to put on a happy Doris Day fifties housewife face and demeanour while doing this. And at the same time watching your husband put in a desultory few hours a week cherry picking the easy bits of housework (bins, half-hearted attempt at hoovering the sitting room without actually bothering to take the kids' toys back to their room, putting half the dishes in the dishwasher while leaving the mugs in the inaccessible places for wifey to pick up later and leaving the counters covered in crumbs, "letting" the missus get a quiet two hours to do the hoovering by, gasp of awe, taking the children out for a couple of hours of fun in the swimming pool, but not washing the kids' socks. ensuring their lunch box is there for school, etc. - NAMALT, but most of them). Of course your mental health will suffer under these conditions.

Wifework is like a check-list of the most stressful workplace features imagineable. Enormous responsibility without any power to take control of the situation. Long, unrelenting hours in a job that is dull as shit. No recognition for the hard work you do - utterly undervalued by others as an activity even though it's vital to their comfort. Hardly any time off. Split shifts. Watching the "boss" swan around taking huge amounts of credit for the end result ("clean home, I'm the breadwinner who facilitates it all"), generally while he does very little of the actual work.

What about instead of you "learning to cope", your husband learns to genuinely do his bit instead of "slowing down" because you're too ill to do your normal lion's share of the shit work?

My suspicions are confirmed - you need a new counsellor, and fast. In fact, possibly no counsellor would be better than the one you have.

Even more disappointing that this came from a woman too

Not surprising though. Women have been telling themselves that they are have de facto power for centuries in order to save their mental health.

I always thought it’d be interesting to embrace the patriarchy and its roles for a month or so, as an experiment to see if it makes you feel better.

Women shouldn’t be the driving force in the home, but it happens all the time. Even when both work full time, the woman ends up doing the bulk of the housework. And women are more likely to stay at home, as evidenced by mumsnet.

But we shouldn’t accept it, and telling you to is absolute bullshit.

Even more disappointing that this came from a woman too :(