Islam?

Wearing hijab to encourage men to be respectful is simply the counter to sexy clothes. In both cases men's reactions are the driving force.

I struggle to think of any religion that is really compatible with feminism TBH. Even if they start off with an idea of equality, such as Sikhism, they end up with the same old same old stuff.

All of the Muslim women i have met in my life were oppressed, forced marriage for one at 14 and we managed to get social services to take her away from her family. Another being beaten by her husband and social services took away their baby because she would not leave him and her family threatened her to stay with him, to hear her cry for her baby is harrowing. I am working class and i wonder is it worse for working class muslim girls because they have a shit time where i live.

Why on earth would it be unfeminist to decide what to wear? And also to have some control over the extent to which you are exposed to the male gaze?

I feel honestly protected by wearing a hijab and I see it as a feminist act.

How is hiding a feminist act? It's not a solution but a crutch. Surely the goal is feeling "protected" without having to hide.

malaguena
"nobody fawns over Saudi Arabia, quite the opposite."
Just to clarify, my friend was referring to people in general, the Government, business and industry here. Not Muslims in particular, although she is opposed to SA financing mosques and schools in other countries.

I became a Muslim because I felt quite oppressed in European culture, as a woman, with the constant demands to look sexy and to be sexually available. I understand that it's totally not comparable to what women in the Third world go through obviously, but as a teenager I was not into make up and boys, and I struggled massively with attention from older men and harassment. I went through periods of anorexia, self-harm, and looking quite 'butch', and then I researched different religions and became a Muslim. I feel honestly protected by wearing a hijab and I see it as a feminist act. It is maybe not for everyone, but it works for me and many of my Muslim friends. I think it obliges some men to keep a respectful tone. I disagree with hijab being imposed on any woman though. There is a big 'Islamic' feminist movement in some Muslim countries led by local women, and I find it inspiring. Most Muslim women I know would describe themselves as feminist (as in women being equal to men), nobody fawns over Saudi Arabia, quite the opposite. I also love the sisterhood between women, I find that very powerful, and I love that there are so many strong female models in Islamic history, and I celebrate that. That's only my two cents though, I am very aware that my options would have been more limited had I been born in a different country. I can't comment on domestic violence, I have not come across it myself with Muslim friends and in-laws (although you can never know obviously), but it's a massive issue for women everywhere as far as I am concerned, and in fact a close non-Muslim relative is a victim.

I know many Muslim women through work, some are my colleagues, some are parents of the children I teach. Nearly every single woman I know covers her head and several of our parents wear the burka.
My colleagues are not downtrodden in any way - they have an equal relationship with their partners. Most of the parents aren't either - at parents evenings they take their veils off in front of us, laugh and joke with their husbands. But other of our Muslim mums have suffered domestic abuse. Is this more common for our Muslim mums than our other parents? If I was just going on what I've heard, I'd say yes, but as domestic violence can be so hidden I can't really know for sure.
I have never had a discussion about anything to do with feminism with any of them. I would love to know their views, but I don't want to seem rude by asking.

Sorry that should read "does" need Reformation.
Damn that pita no edit policy 🙄

You are correct Islam doesn't need a Reformation. The problem is how's it going to come about when just to bring the subject up it's enough for death threats and abuse and highly realistic death threats at that.

I have had many interesting conversations with my elderly Muslim friend about this. Her views can be summarised as 'we need to stop fawning over Saudi Arabia, Islam needs a reformation and a lot of the really problematic stuff is cultural not religious'.

Some aspects of Islamic tradition she sees as specific to a particular culture and time (e.g. head coverings for men and women being necessary in a desert environment, avoiding pork because it can't be kept safely in the heat). I hear a similar arguments in Christian environments about prescriptive NT Bible passages being specific to the time in which they were written, although they were taken literally for centuries (e.g. women covering their heads when they pray).

I think Christopher Hitchen's view on Religion is pretty common here.

The culture of Muslim countries seems worse than the actual religious rules.

Indeed. And they're not consistent either.

The problem is that we are in a secular society or in a Christian society.
It's harder to tell other religions what's wrong or right. Particularly given our history of imperialism. Interference could have worse consequences.

For example, and as far as I understand it, the more secular and more feminist society that developed in Iran a few decades ago, ended up being linked to US interference and economic exploitation, and rejected by religious currents. It ended up with today's Iran, which is still better for women than some other US friendly countries.

My main feeling is that feminism regarding Islam has to act from within, with wider support.
It shouldn't be imposed from the outside.
Although Islam needs to co-exist with human rights and a mostly secular society in most developed countries. It would help if countries stopped being hypocrites in their international relations regarding basic human rights.

It's not too different from Catholicism and other Christian religions. Lots to be done there, still.

I'll cheer all feminist conquests by Muslim women and support them as much as I can.

At the time the Koran was written, it was revolutionary for women.

Islam like Christianity needs to go through a Reformation . It needs to learn to exist in a modern and secular world. I don't see it as particularly accepting and supportive of women's rights and I think feminists are being cowardly over this issue.

The rules in the Koran obviously aren't favourable to women, what religion is? However, at the time it was written it was quite a step forward for women's rights. It allowed for women to be respected to a certain extent, to inherit and to have their own funds. The problem is the way it is interpreted and that it hasn't moved forward since mohammed. The culture of Muslim countries seems worse than the actual religious rules.