Islam?

When making comparisons on religions it is imperative to examine the cultural platform you yourself are examining it from. I'm Christian it's written into the dna of the culture I have grown up in, most people in the country I live in, even if they are not Christian themselves are familiar enough understand the basics.

Most people could understand something that satirises Christianity as we have a common frame of reference with which to understand it. We can also to an extent see satires of Judaism as there is a common frame of reference and there is a longer history of cultural integration (although obviously not always without friction).

We haven't integrated anywhere nearly as well with Islamic culture, although it is still early days comparitively speaking, but it will smooth over as time goes on. Islam was at once stage at its inception one of the most progressive religions, but it is inescapable at least through a feminist lens that western culture has progressed beyond it.

It's also worth not conflating the religion with the culture. Arab and middle eastern culture is very seperate and distinct from Asian far eastern culture. If you compare Indonisia, which is a majority Muslim country has had a female head of state, very progressive (though still not 50/50) rates of female representation in parliament and around 50% of women in the workforce.

I'm not presenting Indonesia as some sort of feminist paradise as nowhere is, but it is demonstrative that Islam itself is not necessarily a barrier to women's participation and advancement and equality. In a sense I think the religion is a bit of a red herring, and there are elements of Arab/Middle Eastern culture that present specific barriers and challenges for women. However it is women from those cultures who are best placed to speak on those what any solutions might be.

We should however be all willing to take steps to break bread with our muslim friends and recognise that many Muslims are as western as we are in thought and philosophy and listen to their stories.

There are however fringes of many religions that have no tolerance for anyone else, and whilst we can all usually spot the Christian or Jewish one's as we have a cultural frame of reference with which to identify them I would confess I wouldn't always be able to identify the Muslim extremists, but the fault lies with my own lack of cultural literacy with Islam itself. The fault most definately does not lie with normal Muslim men and women who are just making their own way through the world.

As a Muslim myself, I recommend you read 'the ideal muslim' and 'the ideal muslimah'.

Sure. Happy to. Can you be more specific? Not sure what to search for.

Try a little research Gacapa.

When I was a teenager / early twenties I used to stay in the house sometimes even though I'd run out of milk because at times I just couldn't face the constant, relentless hassle I got venturing out on the street. If a burka option had been available on these occasions I'd have been delighted to make use of it.

The male gaze is the problem for sure. I only think veils are unfeminist if the reason for wearing them is because other males don't want women subjected to it. If it's women who don't want to tolerate it, then why should they have to?

"goady bitch"

Islam itself is an awful, misogynistic, violent religion.

That’s not to say that all Muslims are.

Interesting topic . I've been wondering about this lately . I've been working with and become friends with a group of Muslim and Hindu women this year and have had my views changed . We chat about everyday homelife with family etc and I was suprised how assertive the Muslim women are about making sure their partners do their share at home and take the kids out etc. How they get to make plans in the relationship - what to spend family money on etc. Contrasted with the Hindu women who just seem to accept their husbands are the boss and will get up at 5am to cook his special food to take to work. I was suprised how opressed the Hindu women seem compared to the Muslims who seem more like feminists. I can't generalise for all Muslims/Hindus , just the ones I know and the fact that the Muslims are uni graduates with families, whilst the Hindus married at 15, 16 to have kids might be the factor - a class thing as an above poster mentioned.

This is the video the OP references:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZHuFah0uds

Exactly the same as Christian women. Some are strong independant women some are subservient to men. Some work, some don't. Some wear modest dress, some don't. Some drink some don't. Some are confident, some are shy. Females are not defined by religion.

I'd agree that all religions are mysogynistic in nature. Not really that men want to get rid of women as such. At least not most (they do need someone to have sex with).

But religions stem from the society they are in, so, I'd more easily blame those societies than religion per se.

Most human societies are not very female friendly, regardless of religion.

Wearing the hijab is proving you are being a good obedient woman and supporting your own oppression..
the child wanting to please the parent..
"Look daddy, am I doing it right now"
They are looking for approval

What I don’t understand is how the U.K. apparently is trying to push forward with ‘feminism’ and equal rights and yet I’ve seen adverts recently, praising the innovation of the hijab for work in construction for example in the U.K. how does that work?!
Women might think they are choosing to wear this attire but it’s the same as before when women would say they don’t wear short skirts and slut shame. They are effectively downing Muslim women that don’t wear them. Men think women should wear them. Girls are brains washed to wear them. Do these women really have a true genuine opinion? Or a brainwashed one from a young age.
I’ve heard things such as a Muslim woman is her husbands jewel and only he should see her. This is really going back to the days of Mohammed. I hope and pray the whole associates culture moves forward to modern times.

@Personwithhorse
Which religion treats women the worst?

All religions are inherently misogynistic. Islam is not special in this. It's just that it's a younger religion, so what is happening in Islam happened already with Christianity a few hundred years ago. I don't think you can really be a follower of any religion and be a feminist as well. That doesn't mean that there isn't sisterhood among Islamic women (there is) but that if you follow any religious doctrine to its obvious conclusion they all seem to have been invented with the purpose of oppressing women, and particularly female sexuality.
Sorry if that is offensive to anyone, but it's the way I see it.

All religion is evil and was invented by men. Hence all the rules about women not doing various things to CONTROL the.

Not mentioned here FMG - UK citizens taking their girls back to the old country to have thei genitals cut off

UK citizens taking their young girls to be forcibly married to near relations in the old country

And an article in the Times today about the huge issue of sexual abuse by Muslims against girls in the U.K.

My late dad and I used to discuss which was the most evil religion, he thought R catholics, I know it is Islam - we agreed to disagree

Religion is about men oppressing women, it's the glue that binds all religions together.
Religions are written by men for the sole purpose to flatter their own vanity.
Men wanted sons not daughters!
Sons were seen as a blessing from their gods whilst their daughters were seen as a as a terrible burden, a punishment inflicted on men, and the general consensus amongst men was that the female was sent by the devil to lead men astray and to distract them from their real purpose in life, which was warring and building monuments in honour of themselves in their all male run totalitarian utopia's

Which is why men slaughtered millions of their own daughters, in the hope the next child produced by their wives would be highly valuable sons, not worthless burdensome daughters they could do without.

I am working class and i wonder is it worse for working class muslim girls because they have a shit time where i live.

Probably.

I work in HE and I've met several Muslim men and women. Of course I haven't met the oppressed women (at least it wasn't obvious) because they wouldn't have been allowed to study or work, or travel outside of their countries.

But I've met Muslim women from Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, Tunisia, etc, who have their careers and didn't seem oppressed. This ranged from more traditional to more westernised women. I have no complaints about the Muslim men I've met and worked with.
A colleague converted when she married and she seems happy. In fact, her marriage seems to work and her husband is fine (in fact, also a friend), unlike for two of us who married western men. :) She was somewhat encouraged to cover her head, but she has veered from covering to not covering and without major problems, as far as I could tell.

There's still a long way to go, IMO, but it seems to be that there is also for Christians, as well as atheists. So, I don't think feminism is only a problem for religion. It's a problem for many men, regardless.

My impression is that some Muslim countries are still where we were just over 100 years ago, regarding feminism. Those societies need to catch up.

Us second-wavers learned about Islam through this woman.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawal_El_Saadawi

We learned that whereas Islam was (putting it delicately), not always a friend of women, that the kinds of myths we 'knew' about it were not always true and that to be culturally sensitive we needed to follow the direction of Arabic / Middle-Eastern women (and some others too) in critiquing Islam, as well as being cognisant of our role in provoking political situations in the ME that led to fundamentalism and the oppression of women.

Nawaal el Saadawi continues to inspire me today.

It depends on the Islam. My grandmother identifies as Muslim. She reads the Koran daily, she prays daily, she practices some of the cultural aspects of Islam like abstaining from pork products and alcohol. She is also the epitome of an emancipated woman. She was a cardiologist and at the zenith of her career ran hospitals and was one of the most important medical practitioners in her area. She left her husband and raised her sons herself. She read, she traveled, she lead a whole and fulfilled life and never considered herself any less than equal to any man. Unfortunately mainstream Islam is backwards and downright barbaric. However there are many Muslims silently practicing a more enlightened version of Islam (which by traditional Islamic principles would be considered blasphemy). Islam will only be compatible with feminism if it undergoes a large scale reformation.

Oh and always silence and squirms in the seat from my white middle class friends when telling them of a young muslim girl i work with who comes in crying because her father has threatened her because of the the clothes she wears or because she stayed out past 8 (she's 22) again a working class victim.