A quick question on the human rights currently denied to trans identifying people

Heather Dunn. What an incredible character and the perfect example.
www.iowastatedaily.com/news/politics_and_administration/campus/article_a4e33242-d576-11e7-bbed-3f4ff7f4e7c4.html
This article details why this person has been impeached but goes completely with 'Heather's' side of things - that the sexual assault claims are made up transphobia.
It's the perfect cover isn't it? 'Not me I'm an actual woman. How could I do such a thing. Those nasty women making it all up. Transphobia. '
Why don't politicians take notice of this kind of thing? How can the journalist writing this be so easily hoodwinked?

Sorry I see you did mention transmen raping females too. I took that to be transmen (ie female to male) rather than transwomen (males)

there have been instances where trans women were raped in male prisons

There are also many instances of men being raped in mens prisons. The answer is not to put everyone who has been raped in with the females. To possibly rape the females.

In answer to the OP, they are missing no human rights. What transwomen want, is womens rights. Not human rights.

“Respect” cuts both ways. This obviously male, massive bloke is crying transphobia for women looking at him funny when he uses the women’s facilities. By the way, he’s currently also suspended for sexual harassment.

In answer to the question of what rights trans people lack that they should have, I think it’s all covered under current legislation, but that obviously doesn’t mean there is no discrimination. If it’s regarding employment, health, access to appropriate services etc, I’m happy to get behind campaigns to address that- I always was. I just won’t do it when it’s encroaching on women’s rights, which sadly rules most efforts to increase the acceptance of trans issues out from the off. It’s sad that it’s come to this. But as I’ve said before, I’ll go to bat for the underdog every time- and in this case, that means lesbians, autistic and sexually abused young women, gender non conforming and possibly gay young boys, vulnerable people swept up in the sparkle wars, women who want to maintain sex segregation etc.

That’s a great analogy, Gaspode!

It should be noted that Mark does not do any housework in Sarah’s house, because that’s her job as a host, and he also doesn’t pay any bills.He feels that Sarah is not sufficiently grateful when he tells her the best way to clean the toilet, despite his never having done it himself. When she tells him it’s been hard for her to make her way in the world, he wails and tells her he’s had it harder.

It’s a human right for trans women to have access to women’s space

On an anti transphobia Facebook page I was on a couple of years ago this was posited. My reply of 'it's a human right for women to have access to penis free spaces' was met with 'ooh, that's a bit terfy' at the mild end.

Then some deluded arsepiece complained about a woman who wouldn't fuck him because she was gay. I wrote 'yeah, she doesn't want to fuck you because PENIS'.

The banhammer hit within minutes. :o That was the moment I realised these people don't want acceptance, they want to drive the narrative. I have daughters and a granddaughter; I don't want this for their future.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Brilliant

Gaspode always spoke sense and so do you

I agree. It's just so easy for TRAs to attack women rather than men. Men can ignore all this. Women can't, or shouldn't, because we're the ones who will be directly affected by all this.

I like the tale of Mark and Sarah but think there's a continuation:

After a while though, Mark feels that Sarah is cramping his style. It's just annoying her being around. Mark starts making Sarah uncomfortable so maybe she'll move on and find somewhere else to live. If she does this, and Mark thinks that Sarah's new place is actually rather nice, he'll move back in with Sarah. Sarah won't be able to move back into her original house though because by that point it'll be full of Mark's mates.

Well stomping is not very feminine.

I think they have the right to a little respect at least. There's a thread on here right now talking about "men in dresses stomping around".

Fantastic analogy!

I see it a bit like this.

Mark grows up in an affluent family, living in a big house. Mark and his family have a disagreement and it becomes difficult for Mark to live there any more. One solution is for the whole family to discuss things openly and come to some kind of compromise that everyone can live with. Neither Mark nor his family will put in the work to achieve this, so Mark moves out. He now needs somewhere else to live.

He could work hard and earn the money to pay for a place of his own where he can live the way he wants, with other like-minded people. Other people in his position have done that in the past.

But there's an easier solution. His neighbour Sarah has a house. A bit small, and Mark is vaguely aware that Sarah has some difficulties, the details of which elude him. Probably a lot of fuss about nothing, and ultimately Sarah's fault for not being from Mark's side of the tracks. Mark's view is that Sarah is morally obliged to take him in. He's had a hard time and Sarah seems a very polite and helpful person. She won't make the fuss that his family have been making. She will just budge up and let him share her hard-won space. She will probably be pleased to be of use.

So without even bothering to ask Sarah, Mark moves in and takes over the space. And soon it's Mark's space, not Sarah's, and everybody is saying how marvellously brave Mark has been to cope with this adversity. If Sarah tries to raise any objection, she gets shouted down. Why can't she see how lucky she is to have this fabulous new person in her house! He really makes a much better job of being there than she ever did. He must be so upset by her behaviour. If he kills himself, it will all be at Sarah's door!

All of which suits Mark's family just fine. They carry on exactly as they always did. Nobody blames them, nobody expects them to change anything they do. They can join in the abuse of Sarah too! Win win win.

So in fact: Article 2 (right to equality) in terms of right to EQUAL protected provision in situations of vulnerability, in the same way women have. (largely by pursuing this equality over decades). And Article 3: right to safety. Yes, absolutely, people who identify as trans need their own provisions to ensure these things.

However Article 12: freedom from interference (which includes the right to arbitrary interference with privacy), Article 18, freedom of belief, (freedom of thought, conscience and religion), Article 19, freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media, and Article 20, the right to peaceful assembly and association, are the human rights currently under threat for biological women and girls.

It is a human right to insist that trans identified individuals are relatively safe in prison. It doesn't follow suit, however, that it is their human right to move to an opposite sex estate on account of them not being of that sex.

There should be suitable provision made for them within the establishment that is correct for their sex.

It’s a human right for trans women to have access to women’s space (same for trans men): men are not the same as trans women.

Huh? So trans women are women, but trans men are not men? Or have I misunderstood that sentence?

I disagree it's a human right to have access to women's spaces. I agree it's a human right to NOT have to be in any space at which you are at risk of abuse and discrimination and male violence, and gladly support creation of trans specific spaces. It's not a human right to commandeer provisions of other vulnerable groups.

It's a man thing

Raving. It is entirely appropriate that the spouses of transitioning individuals have the choice to stay in the marriage or not after the individual has legally changed their sex. The GRC can’t go through until thr marriage is ended, and rightly so. It’s an issue which mainly effects women and thy shouldn’t have to go through a lengthy and expensive process when the other party commits a fundamental breach of contract

Men have a human right to be with other members of their sex.

All human beings can get married regardless of sex.

Raving, can I ask your definition of transwoman? Are you going with self ID - so no medical treatments?

men are not the same as trans women.

Erm yes they are.
Transwomen are men hence the transwomen bit. All transwomen are born male therefore they are men.