Primark changing rooms

That shows single sex changing rooms are legal

Nope:

"If you’re a transsexual person, you mustn’t be excluded from separate or single sex services provided to people of your chosen gender, unless there’s a good enough reason for excluding you. For example, a shop with single sex changing rooms should allow a transsexual woman to change in the women's changing area."

I worked for them until 6 months ago. They told us in the training session that covered this that if other customers were uncomfortable with a person of the opposite sex using the changing rooms, we should ask the opposite sex person to compromise by using the disabled/accessible access changing cubicle, which is usually right the the assistants and lockable even if others are only curtains. If you do complain, go straight to head office/social media as individual store managers are pretty likely to palm you off and take no action, imho.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

That shows single sex changing rooms are legal. To allow biological men in them would exclude many women including Muslim, Jewish, Sikh and Romany women.

For the same reason a trans identifying male would not be welcome in the womens only area of a mosques, synagogue or Sikh temple. Its a single sex area, sex is a protected characteristic. As are religion and race.

Oh bloody hell - I just found this and I am sure it is wrong

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/what-doesn-t-count-as-unlawful-discrimination-in-goods-and-services/single-sex-and-separate-services-for-men-and-women-when-discrimination-is-allowed/

Isn't the something in the equality act about changing rooms being single sex, and being trans makes no difference?

Maybe ask them why they are going against the equality act?

Well no full cubicles is not ideal. But its much better than just making the flimsy efforts some places have into unisex. Obviously its up to shops if they decide to give women a place away from men or not (I think they should, and vice versa but its not really the same for men) but to pretend that women and men are separated when in reality they are not..well its dodgy.

It is still a problem if the cubicles have lockable doors.
The toilets in the local shopping centre have 2 doors and 2 narrow corridors to access the room where the toilets are.
I dont want to be stuck in there with no attendant and a predatory man.

Allowing men in there prevents many women from using them at all.

I am starting to think that a card a bit like the proof of age ones is needed In reality there aren't a huge number of trans around but they are very vocal. There are probably a lot more sexual predators who would say they identify as female just to get into female changing rooms, it's not a problem if they have lockable doors the problem is with communal and curtains

I do not understand how you can have sex segregated areas, that are not segregated by sex? Makes no sense at all.

Our local primark is floor to ceiling lockable doors so this wouldn't bother me as such. But why on earth keep 'male and female' changing rooms, when either sex can use either. Why not be honest and say they are not sex segregated?!

OP have you tried writing to your local MP? Have you alerted Fair Play for Women?

sorry, I know how difficult this all is.

Astro - I think what you are saying is that a well meaning transgender person is being unfairly judged because of heterosexual men who harass women.

but when a trans is self identified, what's the difference between them and a heterosexual man?

also where would a gay man fit in to your ideas - should he be allowed to change next door to a teenage girl because he's gay?

this is why these facilities are separated by genitals in the first place.

Astroterf

You need to stop thinking of MTF trans people as gay. Most of them are not. They are straight males.

Saskia I thought the same

Our local Primark have curtains.

This policy discriminates against women from groups who cannot use a space they have to share with men.

Unfortunate choice of user name astroterf

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Even with the lockable cubicles, it is a problem if women and girls are led to believe that they are in a female-only environment. As a teenager, when I used to go shopping with my friends, part of the fun was that we were in and out of each others cubicles, showing off the new outfits. It would never have crossed our minds that a man might be there, when we nipped into Sally's cubicle in our underwear to try on the dress she had brought in.

There have been plenty of times when I have opened a cubicle door/curtain to an assistant whilst partially dressed - if they are bringing me extra items, for example, doing a bra fitting or if I've called for help with a zip or something. I certainly wouldn't want to find a man there in those situations, and I wouldn't feel comfortable having typical bra-fitting conversations about boob size and how they look/feel in each bra if I knew that there could be men in the other cubicles.

Yes, I have been to places where the fitting rooms are unisex with lockable cubicles, but the difference is that I knew that when I went in, so I adapt my behaviour accordingly - I wouldn't open the cubicle door to my friend whilst in my underwear, for example, whereas I would in a female-only area.

This would put me off shopping in Primark. Or, I'd start going to the shop and just buying and returning everything I wanted to try on instead of using the changing rooms.

If enough people are buying and returning in massive quantities it will really bugger up their system. It's a big problem for retailers apparently.

I suspect that if they ,or any other clothes shop are short staffed the changing rooms are the place they wont bother about

That's not a good idea from point of view of shoplifting- take stuff in and hide it under what you are wearing- not everything is tagged.

If there is no one there, which does happen, I go and find an assistant and say I want to use a changing room. I don't just walk in.

My local primark's changing room has lockable cubicles. It's a non issue.

My primary just has curtains.

lass
The last twice I was in M and S there was no one on the changing room door also Debenhams. I suspect that if they ,or any other clothes shop are short staffed the changing rooms are the place they wont bother about.

Maybe that's the solution. Universal changing rooms but well managed/policed in an unobtrusive manner.

I don't like the idea of my young teenage daughter getting changed in a cubicle where she could be potentially followed in by a pervert because of this stupid policy

I don't know what Primark's changing rooms are like but if they are like M& S, Cos or Hobbs they are lockable floor to ceiling cubicles. Each person is "checked" in by an assistant , checking how many garments they have, and taken or pointed to their cubicle.

The problem is though, the definition of 'trans' has changed.

Increasingly organisations, including the NHS, are broadening their definition of 'trans' to include anyone who 'feels' like a woman and/ or dresses like a woman.

Trans is no longer about that tiny group with gender dysphoria (who many of us would probably be ok with sharing female spaces with). It makes no sense. There's not even an attempt to acknowledge the complexities around this.