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Original poster

Taylor Swift positioned as Time Person of the Year?

111 replies

Squirrler · 06/12/2017 17:49

Moral courage can be found everywhere. There are stories everyday - large and small - of vulnerable people risking their jobs, their reputations, even their lives, to take a stand against abuses of power. If, to reflect the zeitgeist, Time wants to make it about women standing up to sexual abuse, who would argue against that.

But Taylor Swift? One of the most powerful people in modern music, with a personal fortune of millions... that's a choice for the front cover? What did she risk? What was on the line? A man grabbed her bottom and she won a dollar in court. And this is supposed to be inspiration for women to put their own jobs and reputations on the line?

Do me a favour.

I am not questioning the validity of Taylor’s experience or her story. What I have a problem with is what Taylor is being positioned as the face of a movement by being placed on this cover, because she won a lawsuit. She lost nothing when others have lost everything when they break silence, but don’t get visibility. Just look at Ke$ha, whose abuser was her record label boss. She took him to court and lost everything, including her career. She broke silence when there was zero room for it and got shamed into hiding. He even put a gag order on her. Why is she not on the cover?

Why is Tarana Burke not on this cover, when she’s been doing this work for 10 years? Yes, she is on the inside and gets to tell her story but she deserves to be on this cover, because if there is a face for the movement, hers is it.

What about, say, Terry Crews, who is a man who decided to break silence and that shit was major. In this culture of toxic masculinity, men speaking up about their victimhood is revolutionary.

www.awesomelyluvvie.com/2017/12/time-person-of-year-taylor-swift.html

OP posts:
Nyx1 · 07/12/2017 16:00

Invisible - excellent point re timing.

InvisibleKittenAttack · 07/12/2017 14:34

There's another point in this that I think the OP has missed - when Taylor Swift decided to counter sue that fucking twat, it was several months before the allegations about Weinstein hit. Taking the position to counter sue was at a time when there's a Preisdent who said it's ok to "grab em by the pussy", when the tide had yet to turn and the MeToo hashtag hadn't happened.

She wasn't jumping on a bandwagon, she was one of the people who took a stand that lead to a feeling it was time to start calling out men for their abuse, rather than brushing it under the carpet and expecting woman in the public eye to just shrug and accept it as part of the 'cost' of their success.

So she's earned her place being called one of "The Silence Breakers", because she actually was one of the woman first coming forward this year to talk publically about being assaulted by men in the entertainment business.

Just because I didn't go wrong for her, doesn't mean she wasn't one of the people who's stance lead to others feeling they could also talk about what happened to them. Nor does it mean she didn't take a risk by talking.

That court case and it's timing was important if you look at how attitudes towards sexual abuse changed this year. That shouldn't be minimised, even if you think her music is a bit shit and/or are a KUWTK fan...

Summerisdone · 07/12/2017 13:54

I don’t get if you have a problem with Taylor Swift being recognised as part of a group of people who took a stand for sexual abuse, when she was after all sexually abused, then why don’t you have an issue with Rose McGowan? Yes she too has taken a stand and is making her voice heard after the awful shit she’s been through (not just the abuse/rape itself), but she also worked with Victor Salva back in 2011, this was after he had been convicted and imprisoned for molesting a 12 year old boy.

I’m not taking away from Rose McGowan at all, and she deserves to have her voice heard finally, and to be taken seriously at last, but I’m saying that your argument with T.Swift seems to be that she doesn’t stand for enough of the things you believe in and instead only for what matters to her personally, well to be honest that’s exactly what Rose has done but with a fucking pedophile Hmm

SleepingInYourFlowerbed · 07/12/2017 13:42

I don't think anyone is suggesting she's weak and feeble are they?

I like Taylor. She gets a heck of a lot of criticism for every single thing she does. Even when she is chosen as part of a group to be Time Person of the Year...

Coconutspongexo · 07/12/2017 13:36

Sorry x post with buttery

Coconutspongexo · 07/12/2017 13:35

One of the most powerful people in modern music, with a personal fortune of millions... that's a choice for the front cover? What did she risk? What was on the line? A man grabbed her bottom and she won a dollar in court. And this is supposed to be inspiration for women to put their own jobs and reputations on the line?

This seems like a pop

Butterymuffin · 07/12/2017 13:33

This is not a criticism of TS. It's a criticism of a narrative that suggests that she's weak and vulnerable and 'isn't she a brave little soul'.

That's not at all what you said in your OP. You're backtracking now on your attempt to have a pop at Swift.

IndominusRex · 07/12/2017 13:00

Taylor showed all the young girls who admire her that they shouldn't stand for it. Her words in court were incredibly powerful. She also helped fund Kesha's case.

Nyx1 · 07/12/2017 12:37

anyway, you do look like you are backtracking a bit now, or you didn't phrase your OP well at all.

and that article linked to - what do I have in common with any famous rich woman in the article? We're women and have been subject to harassment, that's what. Not sure why the author singles out TS in particular as "have nothing in common with her".

Nyx1 · 07/12/2017 12:34

"It's a criticism of a narrative that suggests that she's weak and vulnerable and 'isn't she a brave little soul"

nope, can't see that either. She's interview in TIME, it's her own words.

do you feel the narrative is "weak and vulnerable" on the other people?
I think we need to be careful of a "weak and vulnerable" narrative but also recognise how much power bosses have - in all industries - and how acceptable certain behaviour is and how to smash it down.

Original poster
Squirrler · 07/12/2017 12:13

I can't, for the life of me, think what I said that broke talk guidelines. Perhaps I should have invented some smug little clique-approved acronym for whatever it was.

This is not a criticism of TS. It's a criticism of a narrative that suggests that she's weak and vulnerable and 'isn't she a brave little soul'. It's demeaning to her, and it's demeaning to the women that actually put everything on the line to face up against far greater powers.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 06/12/2017 23:36

The cynic in me thinks that the people on the cover were probably the people available and willing to do a cover shoot.

I'd possibly rather it was a different set of women. But she did stand up.

Ereshkigal · 06/12/2017 22:04

And, good grief, can there be one thread without whatever we're calling TERFs these days?

Is that directed at me? DFOD.

qumquat · 06/12/2017 21:58

As others have said Taylor Swift risked her reputation and career, and put herself through a court case she didn't need to to prove an important point. Yes she's successful and powerful. It's funny how so many people dislike successful women.

SweetGrapes · 06/12/2017 21:28

I like TS - she speaks up when so many don't.

On another note - just watching Outside Source - Ross Atkins. He said it was all about the strong men and women. The text behind him said "women and men"... but he seems so used to putting men first that he couldn't say it!!

InvisibleKittenAttack · 06/12/2017 21:22

what did she risk? - she's a young woman who's working in a male dominated industry who rather than quietly settling with the DJ who was suing her, decided to counter sue for $1, forcing herself into having to give evidence in court and have to justify her position and why it's not ok to grab a young woman's arse when she's posed for a photo stood next to you. This will have been against all advice she was given.

The 'risk' was to her reputation. The 'risk' was pissing off the very important men in the industry that do think woman should just accept this as part of the 'cost' of fame and fortune. The 'risk' was that she could lose, be humiliated, be branded a liar, more of a 'snake' than she's already seen by some, and if she won, she wasn't even going to win anything other than a moral victory.

It was a fight she didn't need to have. Most woman in her position would just have quietly had the whole sorry mess go away, and settle for what to her would only be a small sum. The DJ who sued her clearly thought that's the route she would take.

I'm glad a woman who otherwise hasn't been very politically visible and has a very young fan base decided to stand up and take on a fight she didn't need to do.

She had nothing to win here. Pretending she had nothing to lose is rather assuming everyone would just shrug and ignore it if she'd lost.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 06/12/2017 21:18

Some of the things she said during the court case were important to say. She was groped, she spoke up, she went through the court case, as another poster says, she has a massive fanbase of young girls and teenagers who have watched their idol say: you know what, you shouldn’t have to endure this just because you’re female and live in a patriarchal world.

thatstoast · 06/12/2017 21:17

Can't agree with you I'm afraid. Let's all stop and have a think about the reasons why people might dislike Taylor Swift. And dislike lots of other successful women for reasons they can't quite put our finger on.

#teamswift

Coconutspongexo · 06/12/2017 21:10

Apparently Kesha said it was too soon, I don’t know if that’s true but I seen it on a tweet a couple of hours ago.

Nyx1 · 06/12/2017 21:08

oh sorry OP, I was on the mobile when I saw your first post and didn't see the article link.

I'm not white but I can't relate at all to what she says. Also, does she know who might have been asked to be on the cover and might have said no?!

and if it draws more attention to the problem to have TS on the cover, great.

Quentin "I get fed up with the "I don't mind a woman but just not this woman" shit that comes put every time a woman achieves something"

yes. is she barred from the cover because she's most famous and therefore not allowed to be part of #metoo or something?

QuentinSummers · 06/12/2017 21:02

I'd rather it was Taylor Swift than Donald Trump or Caitlyn Jenner
I think Taylor did an amazing thing suing that guy and it's nice to see a woman getting this kind of recognition.
I get fed up with the "I don't mind a woman but just not this woman" shit that comes put every time a woman achieves something

Nyx1 · 06/12/2017 21:00

OP "No wonder the actual point gets lost. "

sorry to be thick

what is the actual point? I got from your post that you object to TS in particular and not the other famous people on the cover or in the magazine - but I don't understand why?

Squirrler · 06/12/2017 20:56

This reply has been deleted

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shhhfastasleep · 06/12/2017 20:20

If she made young fans think - "I don't have to put up with this ", she did a good thing and , given how many people pay attention to her, that's a particularly good thing.

Nyx1 · 06/12/2017 19:32

OP I don't know whose words these are in italics
"What community do me and Taylor share, besides womanhood? "

but actually, that community is very important and increasingly under attack.

also, generally, don't get the TS hate.

The Time video has far more people on it, it's embedded here

time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/?xid=homepage