Receptionist in 'unprofessional' clothes. Am conflicted

If you can't see the problem there I can't help you

If you can't see what is wrong with the expression "modest clothing" likewise , I can't help you. I'm actually quite shocked that a poster on FWR doesn't get it.

"you do you" is a really well known phrase to any English speaker who doesn't live under a rock

My you really are delightful. It is a slang expression which I have not heard; However by applying the rules of English grammar your post is gibberish.

Unlike what you are doing here

No, exactly the same. I never claimed to be doing anything other than pointless time wasting!

I very much doubt it. I think the Daily Mail would far more lkely ridicule any one who objected to the that type of marketing as a loony feminist

I'd say they'd love it. "Muslims taking over Marks and Sparks, is nothing sacred?"

You are "fighting" (arf) FOR women to wear what they want but AGAINST calling it what they choose. If you can't see the problem there I can't help you.

Arguing on aibu is not fighting anything, its pointless time wasting

Unlike what you are doing here ?

Maybe get down to M&S and picket them if you actually want to do anything, rather than sitting on your sofa being a keyboard warrior?

Unlike what you are doing here? I haven't picketed them. I have e-mailed their marketing department to say I do not think M&S should be normalising the concept that women's clothes should be described as "modest".

You could do a sad face for the Daily Mail, they would love you

I very much doubt it. I think the Daily Mail would far more lkely ridicule any one who objected to the that type of marketing as a loony feminist.

There were some excellent posts setting out just how anti- feminist and anti- women the concept of "modest clothing" is on the AIBU thread. You might benefit from reading them since you seem to be struggling to understand what a loaded and judgemental expression it is.

"you do you" is a really well known phrase to any English speaker who doesn't live under a rock.
Have you heard of "google"? Try that.

No, there are no words missing, but that's twice you've been stumped by the obvious

There are better battles to be had but you do you

This makes no sense. Try reading it. There are better battles to be had. makes sense- the words "but you do you" don't.

No, there are no words missing, but that's twice you've been stumped by the obvious.

Arguing on aibu is not fighting anything, its pointless time wasting. Maybe get down to M&S and picket them if you actually want to do anything, rather than sitting on your sofa being a keyboard warrior? That would be fighting your fight. You could do a sad face for the Daily Mail, they would love you.

There are better battles to be had but you do you

Not quite sure what the above is saying (did you miss out part of it ?) but , I think rejecting the notion that "modest clothing" should be a marketing term used by a major UK retailer to describe women's clothing is a fight worth fighting.

So you're for women wearing whatever they like in any context, but against them having opinions on clothes and calling them what they like.

There are better battles to be had but you do you.

Gosh you are a charmer Cheerio

I have been posting on an AIBU thread where there are posters who think it is fine for Marks & Spencer's to be marketing a range of clothes as "modest"

I don't think it is fine to impose a loaded and judgemental term on what women wear. Some of the posts here are veering quite close to doing the same thing as the fans of "modest clothing " were doing.

Should you being doing battle if you have to ask a simple question like that? What are you battling for exactly?

Isn't it totally obvious where the conflict is? We can all pretend that everyone can wear exactly what they want and it doesn't mean anything and it is individual choice, and one level mean it. But it doesn't take more than 30 seconds thought to realise it is far from that simple and the world just doesn't work like that

No it isn't "totally obvious" or I would not have asked.

I have spent the weekend doing battle on yet another "there is nothing wrong and judgemental in marketing modest clothing for women and frankly some of the posts here are as judgemental in their own way as the posts flying the flag for "modest clothing "

"Her choice as a woman -she can do what she wants" intellectually, conflicting with "something about this feels seedy and odd, I feel uncomfortable and I can't quite put my finger on it" emotionally

There are an awful lot of assumptions being made and I'm a bit taken aback at the use of the word "seedy".

Isn't it totally obvious where the conflict is? We can all pretend that everyone can wear exactly what they want and it doesn't mean anything and it is individual choice, and one level mean it. But it doesn't take more than 30 seconds thought to realise it is far from that simple and the world just doesn't work like that.

"Her choice as a woman -she can do what she wants" intellectually, conflicting with "something about this feels seedy and odd, I feel uncomfortable and I can't quite put my finger on it" emotionally.

I'm not clear what the "conflict" is. I second
AssassinatedBeauty's and RestingGrinchFace's posts at the start of the thread.

I think it is okay to feel conflicted. Obvs if that is her uniform then there is a problem, but if she chooses it then (which she may well have done) then this is a grey area.

Why is this a grey area? What is grey about It? Female receptionist wears a skirt a feminist thinks is too short and is too dim to realise she is being objectified ? I'm sure that isn't what any of you mean but it's getting close to it.

Thinking more about this one of the secretaries in my department wears very short skirts and come to think of it quite high heels. It has never occurred to me to analyse her clothes in the way being done here. The men in the department seem to be capable of interacting with her in the same way as they do with any other member of staff.

I understand the conflict
I would probably think less of it if it hadn't been a car dealership
Wasn't there recently a computer event where they had dancing girls or something? Can't help wondering if it's a workplace request.

I used to work with a social work team working with substance misuse clients in prison . Our female senior social worker , good looking , big hair , very confident , usually 'professionally ' dressed , always wore short skirts and black knee boots and a thin white blouse when visiting prison. No male staff dared mention it - though we certainly noticed it- but the female staff were as op says 'conflicted' as to whether it was their business what she wore or what if any messages it sent, as she did not wear clothes like this on office days .

I would not make assumptions beyond she is wearing what she wants to wear.

I'm not convinced by the "she is dressing like this because she is forced to by her employer's" line. If employers have a dress code it is far more likely to discourage short skirts and skimpy clothes than encourage.

I found myself looking at the heels and then spotting the bra. I thought 'Jeez if I'm doing this, then I guess this young woman is getting similar and worse all day from men?

Possibly/ probably/ who knows?- but you would have to ask her whether she (a) notices (b) cares and (c ) likes or dislikes the attention it generates. And tbh I find that comment slightly creepy.

By way of example I dress in a way which I want people to notice - my clothes are highly tailored, unusual , expensive and not High Street. And it pleases me to be noticed and get compliments.

She may be, like me, consciously dressing in a way to attract attention (albeit in a rather different way from me).

Whether she is dressing this way because of patriarchical oppression on women to look sexually attractive at all times or because she likes it will I suppose depend on whether or not you think women are capable of deciding how they want to dress.

I'm a teeny bit sceptical about "heels so high she can hardly walk" - that sounds rather like the stock descriptor on FWR of any heeled shoe.

I realise it's not the same but how would you feel if she was tottering around a pub in the same clothing?

I think it's different because there's a perception that she may be forced into wearing it. But she may dress like that all the time, her manager might not feel comfortable approaching her about it, he (I'm assuming it's a he) may love it! Hard to tell from a snapshot.

It's difficult, but you have to assume that she's capable of making her own choices as an adult & that whilst we might not "approve" she may think she's gods gift to receptions the world over & take huge offence if her choices are criticised.

F Scott Fitzgerald said The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

I think many of us would think exactly the same as you.

She and I would not share the same interpretation of 'professional wear' but if it's her choice and her employer is okay with it I would have no problem with it.

Perhaps she might have put on weight recently which is why her clothes are tight enough to gape.