Boys and their mothers

"It wasn't until you required me to respond to Battle's post - which you incorrectly identified as a false interpretation of what you had said."

You must have missed that I immediately acknowledged my mistake and apologised....

My son worships me. There's nothing his mum can't do.

Mine too - they know my job, but what dad's job is is much more nebulous for instance. Even though I'm the most likely to be the one telling them off/enforcing discipline, I'm also the best, the one that they want hugs from, the one that given the chance they'd spend every waking and sleeping moment lounged up against. They're only 7 and 4 yet, but I would hope that the way DP and I raise them means that they'll grow up to be good, open-minded men, with a minimum of bigotry.

I think Genghis's explanation is the one that rings true with me - that it's how other people treat their mother - especially their father - that's going to have the biggest effect on turning loving children into misogynists (or feminists).

Not sure why it's my responsibility to respond- I was just commenting that in my experience making things like this up is a trade part of the anti feminist!

It wasn't until you required me to respond to Battle's post - which you incorrectly identified as a false interpretation of what you had said.

In cases where their dad is on the scene, i assume his treatment of their mum (and attitude towards wifework etc) will be crucial in determining their expectations while they are little.

My DP & I try quite hard to notice when we might be giving our dc the wrong messages it's been enlightening for both of us

What we'll do when they're bigger and getting misogynist messages from every direction I don't know

And I wouldn't have phrased the point the way the OP did. But i really think there is a discussion to be had about how we raise our boys. I find the attitudes and opinions of some of my son's friends deeply worrying. It is depressing that, while legally things have improved massively since I was a young woman, attitudinally (is that a word? It looks odd) things seem to have stayed the same-and in some ways even gone backwards.

"And you are dodging responding to Pasta's made up quote."

Not sure why it's my responsibility to respond- I was just commenting that in my experience making things like this up is a trade part of the anti feminist!

But I will say that it is very common for people to generalize from the particular to the general when it comes to feminism. And most other types of -ism "I have never experienced discrimination in the work place-ergo discrimination in the workplace doesn't happen" For example.

Bertrand, Battle is not interpreting your post. She is referring back to this post.

I think it’s an interesting issue and something I think about a lot with my own young sons. More in the sense of ‘how do I deal with having birthed a member of the oppressive class’?

And you are dodging responding to Pasta's made up quote.

In any case, saskia is quite right about this OP.

Sorry. I just didn't understand what you meant--and I can't answer what I don't understand!

Not really. They way you always do this tangential oakum picking thing is quite dull TBH.

Oh, sorry. You started by quoting me so I assumed. A daft thing to do.

"So yes, I did-and do- think carefully about how I raise my son in a misogynist culture.

And that's how you decided not to raise a misogynist? "

Can you explain this a bit more, please?

It's not an interpretation of your post Bert. It's a quote from fi's. Which is what my earlier post (that you quoted) was originally in response to.

"I do think that ever viewing my sons as "members of the oppressive class" would have been damaging to that determination, though."

Lass- care to comment on this interpretation of my post?

Oh dear, that's really badly written - I've only just got up and had a late night.

My son worships me. There's nothing his mum can't do.

Mine are adults now but they're still very impressed by me.

I've looked that the OP's other posts - they either needs to have a talk with someone about their feelings, either that or, dare I suggest he/she is parroting what they think are arguments that will get feminists riled.

It may well be if that is what your glasses are looking for Bertrand. I have seen it often done the other way as on this thread.

No one has said what Pasta has "quoted".

So yes, I did-and do- think carefully about how I raise my son in a misogynist culture.

And that's how you decided not to raise a misogynist?

I think determination is at least half the battle. The rest is being reflective.

I do think that ever viewing my sons as "members of the oppressive class" would have been damaging to that determination, though.

There isn't a cut off point when males become mysoginist. It's a drip, drip, drip approach, and also sub or unconscious, so they may not even realise it themselves. Hell! Most of us go through our entire lives with no recognition of this!

"The one where feminists make up something horrible people have supposedly said about them to show unfair people are to feminists?"

I may be wearing my Greer Glasses, but isn't this a ttrademark activity of anti feminists? "My husband held a door open for a woman today and got an earful about how she was perfectly capable of opening doors for herself" That sort of thing?

"But I can't remember ever thinking that I would raise an oppressor or a bigot or anything else awful"

I was certainly aware that lots of women have raised oppressors and bigots. And that even more had raised casual, unthinking sexist men. So yes, I did-and do- think carefully about how I raise my son in a misogynist culture. B

PastaOfMuppets

"I haven't seen this so you are obviously not only incorrect but hysterical/an angry feminist"

To be clear - the section in your post in quotes is nothing anyone has said.

Is this an example of the sort of feminist response I was talking about yesterday on an AIBU thread? The one where feminists make up something horrible people have supposedly said about them to show unfair people are to feminists?

But I can't remember ever thinking that I would raise an oppressor or a bigot or anything else awful

No, nor me. And I haven't.

It's probably experience speaking fi.

I think it's one of those "how many angels on a head of pin", deeply theoretical things that might concern you early on.

But I can't remember ever thinking that I would raise an oppressor or a bigot or anything else awful.

Once you have adult sons who don't do various worrying things and do have a great relationships with women and show great awareness, etc, it's hard to engage with such lurid theoretical concerns TBH.

"Be the change you want to see" works.

So does "Raise the change you want to see".

Posters are very dismissive of what is a very relevant issue.

I think it’s an interesting issue and something I think about a lot with my own young sons. More in the sense of ‘how do I deal with having birthed a member of the oppressive class’?