Boys and their mothers

What is interesting is how even when presented with evidence to the contrary, gender roles / stereotypes win.

So with little kids, even when the mum works outside the home, whether full time or part time, you will hear the kids say "daddies work and mummies stay at home". It's like the stereotype is so strong it over-rides what's in front of your eyes.

Like we went to look at cars yesterday. I drive rather too quickly I'm sorry to say and DH is slower and considered. When it comes to colour / fancy interior we are the same and also with gadgets. He is more interested in things that help you park.

So we always sort of challenge what they say - like if they start talking about speed to DH he says ho ho you need to talk to my wife about that and when they start talking about carrying shopping I say ah yes that's something my husband will be interested in. But they still follow the script - men are interested in engines (DH knows nothing about engines), performance, price (as they are paying). Women are interested in safety (children), colour/design and how much shopping it will fit.

Why are these stereotypes so strong? And so silly? I mean obviously men are interested in the children being safe so why is this a female only concern in a sales pitch?

basilisk

I agree with Quentin

Sounds like a lovely child

Ds2 at aboit 5 told everyone that 'daddy goes to work to play golf'

Daddy is income - you are assets . I may have had something in my eye at that point
That is so sweet

I feel really anxious about trying to protect my ds from the misogyny in the world. Since before he was born friends have told me (in the nicest possible way and smiling the whole time) that because he's a boy I can expect him to be lazy, aggressive and destructive. He is none of those things but I'm astonished by the number of people who explain away their own sons aggressive and destructive behaviours as being part of their gender and therefore to be expected and not sanctioned. I find it so hard to thinking of letting him go out of our home into the big wide misogynistic world. 😦

My friend's daughter said aged almost 3 "daddies go to work, mummies stay home".

& assets was not patronising

Ifyou - I had a very similar job to DH & gave it up for family reasons ( and one of us had to and DH was better at it and it made sense , not because I was wife) DS when he was small ( and to be perfectly honest it did get me a bit when I had to not be a financial contributor - my problem , no one else's ) having come back from a maths lesson said - Daddy is income - you are assets . I may have had something in my eye at that point.

My friend (sahm with a doctorate) was discussing careers with her son (what he wants to do when he grows up) and he asked her why she doesn't do anything. She said 'I take care of you and your sister' and he said that wasn't a real job. I thought this sort of thing was quite common. I can't remember how old he was at the time, maybe four or five?

My brothers hated their father, much more so than I did (and they also took care of me and believed all their sisters).

They are all divorced. Never remarried. Two are now in relationships, one of those is being abused by his partner, regularly. They just didn't get the wife work thing.

Acknowledging that people contribute in equal but different ways

That's so true Basilisk. My mum was a SAHM but my Dad always appreciated the work she did. You see so many threads here where the OP or the DH thinks that breadwinner = main contributor = more power. As if the wife is sitting idle at home.

I don't know about sons but I remember when I realised I'd been born into the sucky class. It was when whenever we went to other people's houses it would be the women tidying up and cooking whilst the men relaxed and chatted.

Thanks Bertrand

I just might.

I don't know about you but I'm a goddess. I think you may have forgotten.

Stay and play, Basilisk. Don't believe the Travellers Tales from the faint hearted..gf.....

This is my first foray into Feminism Chat but - Wanted to comment on this

Bertrand - Another "vote" for the importance of modelling equal, respectful and loving relationships. I think this is particularly important when their is what appears to be a power inbalance (not exactly what I mean, but can't think of different words). Where one parent earns a lot more than the other, for example. Or works much longer hours....Acknowledging that people contribute in equal but different ways.

This - just typed out a post and backed out nervously - but this. I am hopeful my son gets it - I think he does.

ava when my D'S was about 8 one day he told me that men were just better than women. When I asked him why/for examples he tried (because men are in charge of everything/do good sports) and eventually (probably because I was getting more aerated) said "oh don't worry mummy, you won't get it."

My son has been bought up in a very feminist family, equal parenting etc and still thinks "men are just better".

I think they actually disconnect their own mothers from this in their thoughts because that's their mum and she is different.

And I think that disassociation of tgeir mother from the class of "women" continues later in life and is why men are able to treat women badly, why so many men don't get feminism til they have a daughter etc.

I don't know what we can do as parents because so much of this message is absorbed from what boys observe around them rather than what they are told. I try to talk to my son about stuff and as he is getting older he does see and comment on sexist stuff and we discuss it. Hopefully that's enough

I think there has been research relating to the way people interact with newborns. Starting at birth really.

From personal experience i haven't encountered the attitude from my family members

With the exception of FIL who is a twat...so that explains it, and to be fair he has a similar attitude to all the other members of his family

But i get the distinct impression that the females in his family dont count

Mmmm, I am a lone parent, left an abusive relationship, have a DS with additional needs who has previously engaged in quite aggressive externalising behaviours and can be quite demanding.

I really wish I could dismiss the concerns in the OP, but I am having to work really hard on teaching expressing emotions and anxiety with DS, not him just lashing out; understanding that gender roles are not fixed etc, helping him with clear routines that he feels secure, teaching him to respect personal space, turn taking, that I won’t do everything (although some times he does need me to help more than another child his age) etc. I don’t know if this is really to do with being male, though, or additional needs and circumstances.

At the same time, he sees me working, running a house, taking the car to the garage, etc., so I don’t know what he will grow up to think.

" and come to me rather than there dad."

Why do you think that is?

What an odd post? I have 2 boys and they think nothing of the sort. They know I can do anything and come to me rather than there dad.

After many years here I'm giving my first ever .

Oh and that weird thing of older boys / young men watching porn together and bonding over it - or just sharing extreme images of women - that can't do much for the psyche either. That went on a lot when I was young, I'd be surprised if it has stopped. Remember all the young men sharing that 2 girls 1 cup thing (I never watched it) - the subjects of these humiliating / gross / painful vids are always women IME. I don't know if gay men do this over similar clips of men. Not so much I suspect as part of the point seems to be seeing women as "other" and humiliating them etc.

I mean loads of men like upsetting women just day to day don't they in little ways. A significant minority but there are enough of them that I'd say most women have experienced it.

Gone off track a bit sorry.

I''ve had little boys saying how rubbish girls are when I'm around. One time, when I challenged them with "your mum is a girl" (nicely - he was only about 7!) he got really confused. It came from a program on the telly with male and female characters and
he had said he knew everything about all of them, turned out he only meant the male ones.
I've also heard stories from my kids at school - just minor stuff around taking up all the space in the playground, dominating the classroom with mucking around / being noisy, that sort of stuff.
I mean there is - at a general overall level - an issue isn't there. I think it is quite well known so would be surprised if anyone disputed it.

Then when older you get stuff like the girl guides report here

So I think it is difficult when it's personal, obviously we all think our own kids are fab - and the probably are ! - but, looking at society and all the stuff around harassment and all the stuff that most of us will have experienced - these men are all coming from somewhere, they are all someone's son.

Looking at the way things are different in different countries in terms of levels of harassment etc, it is clear that societal and probably family values make a difference, otherwise there would be no difference in prevalence in different countries.

I'm not going to comment about what individuals can do - I don't think that's the right approach as it understandably upsets/annoys people and if they are listening they're probably doing it already.

For me changes in society across the board in attitudes to women, what they are "for", how they can be treated, etc is the way forward which is your basic fundamental feminism IMO so we are all good

Another "vote" for the importance of modelling equal, respectful and loving relationships. I think this is particularly important when their is what appears to be a power inbalance (not exactly what I mean, but can't think of different words). Where one parent earns a lot more than the other, for example. Or works much longer hours....Acknowledging that people contribute in equal but different ways.