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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Question about equality

85 replies

wnsdkfl · 29/11/2017 21:19

For a long time, me and my friend used to discuss about the women's rights for a long time. Being the devil's advocate, I would try to prolong the talk for arguments' sake. But then, it slowly developed into a solid argument (in my opinion). Now I am curious what you all think about my thoughts. If you're willing, can we start a civil discussion?

There are many problems that females face, and there are many problems that males face. Many major groups of rights activists easily overlook, ignore, and deny the other side’s problems and arguments and continue to press on their side of the argument. This happens because of their personal benefit. It is convenient for them (let it be males or females) to have more rights in the future, so the rights activists continue to struggle to this day. I believe that it is necessary for people to open up and reach an agreement that men and women are to be equal, and that they all are entitled to a power to reach an agreement in deciding the distribution of the rights, merits, and responsibilities within the society.

If people want to argue that men and women have the same capabilities, then should the responsibilities of each sex be distributed 50% each? If so, should 50% of the fathers in child custody issues be given a chance to take care of the baby? Should there be no required economic support from the fathers’ side with the assumptions that women are equally capable?

For the wage difference between males and females, is it appropriate to take the maternity leave and other vacancy of the working forces due to some other inevitable female burdens into account when we look into their wages? If so, do we pay them for their times away from work as well? If not, how will you take this approach?

What is the limit that you all are comfortable to set and say that “this is equal” to everyone? Is your ideals for equality something that is entirely 50:50, or something that is derived from each sex’s “roles” within the society? Is it a mix of both? Or is it something entirely different? Do women need more rights over men because in the past, it was other way around? I am very curious.

When confronting these questions, it is very important to question yourself if you are arguing for sake of your own convenience. If you are going to make an emotional appeal for your argument, take into account what the opposite sex will go through emotionally when something similar happens to them. If you are going to make a statistical report, question the source’s biasness from their research, as it is easy to remove the parts that are inconvenient for them and still tell the truth. It will be truly hard to argue in a impartial manner.

OP posts:
MindWillingBodyNotSoMuch · 29/11/2017 22:58

My husband and I are in very similar lines of work, with the same employer. We were both selected for promotion. For this promotion to become permanent we had to complete a course. This course is fairly physical, the only persons not allowed to attend are females who are pregnant.

Shortly before commencing the course I discovered I was pregnant and could not, therefore, complete the course to gain promotion.

I had our gorgeous DD, had 9 months Mat leave, then returned to work. I completed said course at the earliest opportunity and gained promotion (eventually).

We both had a child, yet my husband now has 2 years seniority over me and is looking at further promotion this year. Yet, I am now at least two years behind having been pregnant and then on maternity leave (which is no picnic).

Where is the equality in that??

QueenLaBeefah · 29/11/2017 22:58

That's very impressive Lass. I was stunned on GBBO a few years back when one of the challenges was to make 12 tea cakes. It looked impossible.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/11/2017 22:50

Not a fan of the snowball. Does it have desiccated coconut on it?

It does. The greatest achievement of my life is I can make home - made "Tunnock's" tea cakes and snowballs. Kitchen is a disaster area of coconut and melted chocolate but it's worth it.

FizzyWaterAndElderflower · 29/11/2017 22:50

Perhaps have a browse of the board OP - we discuss all sorts of problems, we've been doing it for years! Have a read, and perhaps come back if you think there are things we haven't covered?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:47

wns

Alrighty

I agree that in an ideal world with no problems that there should be 50/50 custody or at the very least an amicable arrangement in the best interests of the child

I think that is what british courts try for

The problem is that the majority of parents who care for the child on a day to day basis are women...which means that in the interest of continuity they tend, at the moment, to give the majority of the custody to the woman

Women also tend (obviously not always) to be the ones that go part time or stay at home and that too makes a difference

wnsdkfl · 29/11/2017 22:44

Also, the specific things that I pointed out initially was just two of the many potential topics out there where there still persists an issue. If you've got other problems that I didn't cover and you consider it to be important, please let me know!

OP posts:
wnsdkfl · 29/11/2017 22:42

So what do you think should happen in a divorce if we want full equality?
I'm on the side of taking priority of giving the child custody to the willing parents first. If both wants them, then there could be an agreement of splitting the allocated periods of the custody.
Checking for criminal backgrounds, drug/alcohol problems, living conditions, etc also should be taken into account.
These things are already being done when there is a custody dispute, and I see no problem in them.
It is just that it slightly bugs me to see the custody ratio tipping off the 50:50 ratio into mothers' favor because of the maternal responsibility arguments, when at the same time there are also arguments going on for the equal responsibilities for both genders.

OP posts:
QueenLaBeefah · 29/11/2017 22:41

Not a fan of the snowball. Does it have desiccated coconut on it? That stuff gives me the boak.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:39

Yep

Did love a snowball back in the day

FizzyWaterAndElderflower · 29/11/2017 22:39

What do you think OP? Where do you think equality would be on each of these points (be sure to back up your arguments with statistics, and thinking about the other side now!)

I always assumed a jammy dodger like Assassinated

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/11/2017 22:36

Tunnock's Snowballs - food of the gods (and godesses)

DJBaggySmalls · 29/11/2017 22:36

It sounds like men are annoyed that women are getting equality. Its irrelevant what help women get. Its got nothing to do with men or their problems.
Its up to men to decide which problems they face and then work out how to deal with them; instead of complaining about what help women get.

I cant speak about the situation in Korea as I dont know much; except women are told to smile so much at work they get plastic surgery to make their smile permanent.
Hopefully that will change.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:35

Ive had one of those caramel things

But not the log

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/11/2017 22:35

Other than that, there is nothing wrong with improving our safety

If by "our" you mean men then the remedy is in your own hands. There are violent women but they are a tiny proportion of the population of any country.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:34

lass

Aaaah i see

I lived in scotland for 7 years but was very little

My mum loved tunnocks teacakes...are they primarily scottish? Or northern

QueenLaBeefah · 29/11/2017 22:34

Could everyone stop talking about Tunnocks tea cakes - I had to ban them from the house after I ate six in one sitting.

Ginmakesitallok · 29/11/2017 22:33

www.tunnock.co.uk/products/caramel-log/

birdsdestiny · 29/11/2017 22:33

No there is a caramel log thing. Chewy.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:33

Yes

There are a lot of clever women on here (not me...I literally just come here for the biscuits)

And they are more than happy to debate these issues but not just answer a bunch of questions

So what do you think should happen in a divorce if we want full equality?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/11/2017 22:33

Toasted coconut, not toasted caramel

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/11/2017 22:32

Have you made that up

No it is another Tunnock's creation. They are lovely. Caramel wafer covered in chocolate and toasted caramel. It might be a Scottish thing.

wnsdkfl · 29/11/2017 22:29

Yes, this is indeed a lot of questions. Is there a problem?

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:27

gin whats a caramel log

Have you made that up Hmm

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 29/11/2017 22:27

wns

Your post is just a lot of questions

What do you think

Ginmakesitallok · 29/11/2017 22:27

WON'T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE MENZ? ????

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