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Original poster

Are 'sex' and 'gender' interchangable / rude words in other languages?

36 replies

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 17:45

Long before trans ideology was a "thing", people in the UK started using the word 'gender' when they mean 'sex'.
e.g."gender reveal baby parties" when really they mean "sex".

Obviously a significant reason for this is that people see the word "sex" as rude and "gender" as a polite alternative.

Is it the same or different in other languages?

Do you know the words for 'sex' and 'gender' in any other languages? What are they? Are either of them considered rude? Do people say 'gender' when they really mean sex in that language? Or vice versa?

On another thread, we were wondering if there's any link between people using these words interchangably and how quickly the TRA idea that gender=sex is accepted in countries.

If we get a few examples we could have a look at Google Trends and see if we can see any diffence between countries for the rise of terms related to TRA ideology, which could be really interesting.

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counterpoint · 27/11/2017 23:43

The morpheme "gen" is from the Greek for "birth" e.g. Genesis, genetics. So it's inaccurate to use it for "gender" unless the "der" suffix means something that nullifies that connection?

"Sex" is referred to as the equivalent of "type" and is a little complicated as it forms the basis of most classification words in biology e.g phylogeny.

I think the word for 'transgender' in Greek is a borrowing from English and is actually "transsexual" as "gender" doesn't exist.

Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 23:18

Gwenhwyfar so are a lot more DC taking puberty blockers there or are people researching them more online?

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Gwenhwyfar · 27/11/2017 23:13

"And what gives with Canada? "

Canada's very hot on trans rights.

Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 23:10

Worldwide comparison of transgender, sexism, sexist, puberty blockers and TERF

Transgender is the blue line

Are 'sex' and 'gender' interchangable / rude words in other languages?
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Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 23:06

I'm getting the data from here by the way - a great tool to play with: trends.google.co.uk

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Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 23:05

This one's 'Puberty blockers'

I'm surprised to see the UK is so close to America, given the States is so much bigger than us.

Canada 100
Australia 83
United States 67
United Kingdom 57

And what gives with Canada? They're about a third of our size, population wise. Are loads of kids talking puberty blockers there or is it just that people are more interested in the subject so they're searching more?

Are 'sex' and 'gender' interchangable / rude words in other languages?
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campion · 27/11/2017 23:01

I think you're right about the US influence raisins. Everyone seems to need the bathroom now. They get twitchy at the correct use of sex, though have no problems with guns apparently.

I guess our new puritanism has been imported from America and mangling the language is just a part of that.

OlennasWimple · 27/11/2017 22:59

raisins - yes, it was me who made the "restrooms" observation about LM parroting the well-rehearsed TRA phrases (on one of her video diaries on Youtube)

Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 22:59

Google searches on the word 'Transgender' by country

This is simply a measure of volume, so of course if somewhere has a bigger population there may be more searches despite the percentage of people interested in the word "trangender" being smaller.
Naturally it favours countries that actually use the term transgender!

The top volume is 100% - the rest are % of that volume, the figures aren't actual numbers of searches.

Country transgender: (27/11/2016 - 27/11/2017)

United States 100
Canada 71
New Zealand 57
Australia 57
Ghana 57
United Kingdom 54
Ireland 51
Netherlands 47
Nigeria 43
Philippines 43
South Africa 42
Singapore 38
Pakistan 33
United Arab Emirates 31
India 31
Germany 30
Austria 29
Kenya 29
Switzerland 27
Malaysia 26
Indonesia 25
Belgium 24
Sweden 19
Norway 19
Italy 17
Finland 16
Denmark 14
Czechia 14
Bangladesh 14
South Korea 13
Greece 11
Israel 11
Romania 10
Saudi Arabia 8
Thailand 5
Mexico 4
Spain 4
France 4
Poland 4
Turkey 3
Brazil 2
Russia 2
Japan 1

Are 'sex' and 'gender' interchangable / rude words in other languages?
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archaicmother · 27/11/2017 22:45

I have nothing useful to add here but this is a very interesting thread.

Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 22:44

Is trans ideology on the rise in non-English speaking countries in Europe the same way?

Or is it an idea spreading primarily via the English language (for now?) from America?

Someone pointed out this week that trans teen and Labour Woman's Officer Lily Madigan used the word "restroom" when talking about safe spaces, implying Lily was parrotting American rhetoric "she'd" read somewhere.

To be clear - I'm not trying to pin the "blame" on America! I'm just thinking about how ideas spread.

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Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 22:30

pisacake thank you, that's real food for thought.

So the idea of transgender rights probably predicated on women having rights to start with.

Such a good point.

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pisacake · 27/11/2017 22:23

gender is from Latin genus for 'type', genitals is from the Latin verb gignere 'to beget'

AlternativeTentacle · 27/11/2017 22:18

as in gen-us?

AlternativeTentacle · 27/11/2017 22:18

does gen-der come from gen-itals?

Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 22:12

@MrGHardy really interesting to see there's only one word used in Germany.

What's the trans scene like there? Has there been a rise in Trans Rights Ideology like we're seeing here and in America?

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pisacake · 27/11/2017 19:54

another way I think to look at it is that TRA is MRA.

Every time you hear about trans rights, it's men in women's sport, men in women's changing rooms, men in women's jobs, etc.

TRA = MRA

And if women have no rights then MRA/TRA don't operate

pisacake · 27/11/2017 19:37

raisins, in Indonesia they have 'bencong', which is derived from 'banci' which colloquially means 'sissy' or 'effeminate' but originally just meant 'hermaphrodite'/ambiguous genitals. They also have 'waria' which is the word 'wanita' ('woman') combined with pria ('man').

So a transsexual there is basically referred to as 'ladyboy'.

In Thailand the word is 'kathoey', which apparently also derives from hermaphrodite/intersex.

The difference there is that they are a third sex, or possibly a subset of men. There is no ideology of transitioning from a man to a woman. I think this comes from law, e.g., the GRA 2004 which asserts that a transperson acquires their new sex in all respects.

The kathoey of Thailand often 'pass' very well as women, but the difference is that male sex tourists are warned that they are likely to be robbed etc. metro.co.uk/2017/09/09/thai-hotel-criticised-for-warning-guests-about-light-fingered-ladyboys-6914475/
www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1146507/violent-gang-of-ladyboys-mugging-tourists-warn-thai-police-after-german-man-was-attacked-in-girlie-resort-town/

No warning is necessary for male sex tourists with female prostitutes, where female prostitutes are the one at risk.

In Indonesia, the idea of a man 'acquiring' female gender when he becomes a ladyboy would be seen as ridiculous.

Women are married at 20 with kids, don't go out on their own from the age of puberty due to risk of rape and murder www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-crime/leader-of-indonesia-gang-which-raped-murdered-girl-sentenced-to-death-idUSKCN11Z14D

Whereas the waria/bencong are essentially male in their behaviour, they merely happen to look female.

So you have:

man
woman
ladyboy (in reality homosexual man)

Androgynous women would be referred to as 'lesbi', there is no concept of female-to-male. You do also get 'homo' for men, distinct from 'ladyboy', but out gay males mostly become 'ladyboy'.

I don't think that traditional cultures have the issues of the UK because gender (or rather sex) roles are far stronger there. E.g., there are still virginity tests for women in Indonesia joining army/police www.hrw.org/news/2017/11/22/indonesia-no-end-abusive-virginity-tests

So the idea of transgender rights probably predicated on women having rights to start with.

Ekphrasis · 27/11/2017 19:01

Thanks raisins.

The bbc keep referring to Megan M’s work on “gender equality.” Im assuming they mean sex equality but it’s really not clear.

SolidarityGdansk · 27/11/2017 18:54

I just googled and found an interesting article about other languages that don’t have gender pronouns

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_neutrality_in_genderless_languages

SolidarityGdansk · 27/11/2017 18:52

Hungarian has no gender pronouns

I know a Hungarian elderly man who had been in the Uk for 60 years and still can’t get used to gendered pronouns. Everyone is a “he” to him.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 27/11/2017 18:51

I blame Adrian Mole - I wonder what the impact of thousands of teenagers sniggering at the "sex? Yes please" on a form,and then copying it in real life had...

Elendon · 27/11/2017 18:49

There are a few phrases that hang on from the Anglo Saxon (though not as many swear words as we would like to think there are) and of course English has been influenced in the North by the Vikings.

Elendon · 27/11/2017 18:47

French is derived from Latin and (whisper it) English as we know it is derived from Latin and French.

Intercourse means exchange (interestingly, in monetary terms).

Original poster
raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 27/11/2017 18:40

Elendon:

And I do agree that the mention of the word sex regarding identifying biological class brings out a certain prissy attitude, but especially with men. They get all in a fluster with it. Women are much more stoical and pragmatic in the biology.

Totally agree with that in English speaking places!

Did you mean the same is true in France? Is the word for sex (as in XX or XY) considered impolite in French? Does it mean the same as sex (as in intercourse)?

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